Received: from mail-oa0-f56.google.com ([209.85.219.56]:47613) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1To3GF-00067K-Sw; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:32:05 -0800 Received: by mail-oa0-f56.google.com with SMTP id j6sf5360606oag.21 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=hhuNXlyuj2BEzmFySG1ZnlB4CIARnsJGP/hFxLd0nCc=; b=ESAR9clysUtduXSOiAmCYjYfwoW2MKq0ePtuPmkFRHgfJ8FjizI2Aog3h4NW0nnMmK +e8vnGWIWhzUpmO6y1W4iw4s8z4LxcxMGfW2lIbQ9KkAXFtQaOpTb7xRPYBXnxqcT83F aADR2WrQQFfHkiBh3+cR19dH/PnChayItaWrrlwfZzaziWc60ZanozVLTDYMnHwV1Nsn byLHC9ZU0MvS/O+nK7nh3CDB0r9O8rdSlkSbc6Jo37V4vfmQPf2oGnHrD1/8SqCBOOle 46jvEsGEXUiSU5beEvdodoqpwHNhZ5JCVDgzz3zhN4f7I8wtwH5ifrx9ganLXgfCOTGq tcRw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=hhuNXlyuj2BEzmFySG1ZnlB4CIARnsJGP/hFxLd0nCc=; b=KAfP7FVoLgnrhidZKyaAUrSUJ40BcFAYeJwEMei9A1cWpBO8gCdd4K4m8Prm/O/+7f BHNcTamgxiFblq8Dl3ktYVmZ0sXrRfWywEQecidYIj7F8dpFqkRA1wjoq80SHvfyjl/D tcgjVGsdrUGVC7lZM2NUKCE2o8TfIQ2O+DQcS8fVxJcI7lP84yHu5IhqxldxOMXicmek VDrTLd7VJrEdGFJ7Ihqm8rpGzdYm+P2OvIRhufqnVAWV9s+wuHNsGt4vQ9f8Pe4mTa3k cz25It9FW1BGzETcQrYh+kspKa1qo38Ux5ski4ETRHkkrlrp+rZyWJWoJymAgSnCNBz1 OVqQ== X-Received: by 10.49.71.169 with SMTP id w9mr4350980qeu.7.1356575509079; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.121.97 with SMTP id lj1ls753005qeb.39.gmail; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.229.232 with SMTP id st8mr14602490vec.34.1356575507807; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.229.232 with SMTP id st8mr14602489vec.34.1356575507789; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com (mail-vb0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u2si1510929vdi.2.2012.12.26.18.31.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.44; Received: by mail-vb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fc26so9568836vbb.3 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.91.73 with SMTP id cc9mr38974001vdb.48.1356575507632; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.13.197 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <44e6fb5c-91f3-47ba-817c-8560c9c6ca14@googlegroups.com> <50DB3C14.9060303@gmx.de> <20121226185805.GH7855@samsa.fritz.box> <3641882.8sMyCj0ouv@caracal> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:31:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f33383e518904d1cc5965 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --20cf307f33383e518904d1cc5965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 zo'e noi ... and da poi ... are completely and totally different. One involves context, the other doesn't (or, in some interpretations, "approximately doesn't", i.e. context can affect the universe of discourse but in any case it is "large"). Moreover, PA lo broda cu brode doesn't imply that no other broda1 brode, whereas PA broda cu brode does. mu'o mi'e la latro'a On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > >> On 26 December 2012 14:09, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> pa plise = pa lo plise = "one of one or more things which actually is an >>> apple" = an apple (as opposed to "that apple") >>> >>> >> This was only true in pre-xorlo. Under the gadri proposal, {pa broda} -> >> {pa da poi ke'a broda} directly. In xorlo, {pa broda} and {pa lo broda} are >> thus very different. >> >> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o >> > > No they aren't. > > {pa lo broda} = {pa zo'e noi ke'a broda} > {pa broda} = {pa da poi ke'a broda} > > {zo'e noi...} and {da poi...} are very similar in meaning. The two phrases > may not be "equal", but they are certainly still equivalent. > > >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 19:58:05 v4hn wrote: >>>> > The question is, what do you answer, if you _don't_ have a specific >>>> one >>>> > (or a group of specific ones) in mind, but {lo plise} is the most >>>> specific >>>> > thing you can say? >>>> >>>> "lo co'e plise"? "lo nalsteci plise"? >>>> >>>> Pierre >>>> -- >>>> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf307f33383e518904d1cc5965 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable zo'e noi ... and da poi ... are completely and totally different. One i= nvolves context, the other doesn't (or, in some interpretations, "= approximately doesn't", i.e. context can affect the universe of di= scourse but in any case it is "large"). Moreover, PA lo broda cu = brode doesn't imply that no other broda1 brode, whereas PA broda cu bro= de does.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On W= ed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 26 December 2012 14:09, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:
pa plise =3D pa lo plise =3D "one of one or more things which actually= is an apple" =3D an apple (as opposed to "that apple")
=


This was only true in pre-xorlo. Under the gadri proposal, {pa broda} ->= {pa da poi ke'a broda} directly. In xorlo, {pa broda} and {pa lo broda= } are thus very different.

.i mi'e la tsa= ni mu'o

No they aren't.

{pa lo b= roda} =3D {pa zo'e noi ke'a broda}
{pa broda} =3D {pa da poi ke&= #39;a broda}

{zo'e noi...} and {da poi...} are very similar in m= eaning. The two phrases may not be "equal", but they are certainl= y still equivalent.
=A0
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@b= ezitopo.org> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 19:58:0= 5 v4hn wrote:
> The question is, what do you answer, if you _don't_ have a specifi= c one
> (or a group of specific ones) in mind, but {lo plise} is the most spec= ific
> thing you can say?

"lo co'e plise"? "lo nalsteci plise"?

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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=
--
mu'o mi'e .aio= nys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patf= u do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

= .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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