ignotum per ignotius -- = except that the thing being explained is relatively clear and the explanati= on is not. {zo'e} has no intelligible meaning in this context, since = it is not filling in an uninteresting place in a selbri (its only prescribe= d use). Furthermore, broda is not an incidental property ({noi}) of t= his whatever-it-is, but rather a part of its definition -- the selbri it is= missing if there were one. xorxes is usually brilliant, but occasionally h= e screws up and this whole idea of defining these various locutions in othe= r terms just does not work. At least not in this way. That bein= g said, the basic point, that {pa broda} and {pa lo broda} are very different (now that {lo broda} is not {lo ro broda}, which it hasn't been = for a long time), remains. The two "expansions" are also very differe= nt, though not obviously (even obviously not?) in the same way as the two b= asic expressions are.

F= rom: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:25= PM
Subject: Re: [lojba= n] "Any" and {ro}

On Wed, D= ec 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

On 26 December 2012 14:09, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com= > wrote:

pa plise =3D pa lo plise =3D "one of one or more things which actually is a= n apple" =3D an apple (as opposed to "that apple")

This was only true in pre-xorlo. Under the gadri proposal, {pa broda} ->= {pa da poi ke'a broda} directly. In xorlo, {pa broda} and {pa lo broda} ar= e thus very different.

<= div>.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

No they aren't.

{pa lo broda} =3D = {pa zo'e noi ke'a broda}
{pa broda} =3D {pa da poi ke'a broda}

{z= o'e noi...} and {da poi...} are very similar in meaning. The two phrases ma= y not be "equal", but they are certainly still equivalent.

On= Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

On Wednesday, December 26= , 2012 19:58:05 v4hn wrote:
> The question is, what do you answer, if you _don't_ have a specific on= e
> (or a group of specific ones) in mind, but {lo plise} is the most spec= ific
> thing you can say?

"lo co'e plise"? "lo nalsteci plise"?

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.

=
-- =
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i do= i.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.