On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Jones= <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

Where do you think "exactly" comes= from? Certainly not from {da}, whose definition is {sumka'i .i pamoi k= e logji lairka'e snicne}.

On W= ed, Dec 26, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

To give a concrete example, consider the dif= ference between {ci remna cu nanmu} and {ci lo remna cu nanmu}. The former = says "there are exactly three humans that are male. The latter says th= at we're talking about some humans, three of whom are male. Note that t= he former is blatantly false, while the latter is true in plenty of context= s.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Ian Johnson = <blindbravad= o@gmail.com> wrote:

The similarity is nearly all syntactic; the = semantics are entirely different. {ci broda cu brode} is an extremely preci= se statement, saying that there are exactly 3 brodas that brode. {ci lo bro= da cu brode} is an imprecise statement, saying that there are some brodas t= hat are relevant in context, and three of them brode. It could be that e= very broda brodes in the latter case, if only three brodas are contextu= ally relevant.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail= .com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec = 26, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

zo'e noi ... and da poi ... are completely and totally different. One i= nvolves context, the other doesn't (or, in some interpretations, "= approximately doesn't", i.e. context can affect the universe of di= scourse but in any case it is "large"). Moreover, PA lo broda cu = brode doesn't imply that no other broda1 brode, whereas PA broda cu bro= de does.

Those are two very small differences. They do n= ot add up to "completely and totally".

Both are a variable= pro-sumti with an identifying clause attached. That spells "very simi= lar" to me.
=A0
mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:

On Wed, Dec = 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> w= rote:

On 26 December 2012 14:09, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:
pa plise =3D pa lo plise =3D "one of one or more things which actually= is an apple" =3D an apple (as opposed to "that apple")
=

This was only true in pre-xorlo. Under the gadri proposal, {pa broda} ->= {pa da poi ke'a broda} directly. In xorlo, {pa broda} and {pa lo broda= } are thus very different.

.i mi'e la tsa= ni mu'o

No they aren't.

{pa lo b= roda} =3D {pa zo'e noi ke'a broda}
{pa broda} =3D {pa da poi ke&= #39;a broda}

{zo'e noi...} and {da poi...} are very similar in m= eaning. The two phrases may not be "equal", but they are certainl= y still equivalent.
=A0

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@b= ezitopo.org> wrote:

On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 19:58:0= 5 v4hn wrote:
> The question is, what do you answer, if you _don't_ have a specifi= c one
> (or a group of specific ones) in mind, but {lo plise} is the most spec= ific
> thing you can say?

"lo co'e plise"? "lo nalsteci plise"?

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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