Received: from mail-wi0-f191.google.com ([209.85.212.191]:60414) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ToCZY-0000ay-EC; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:44 -0800 Received: by mail-wi0-f191.google.com with SMTP id hj6sf3512300wib.8 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf:date:from :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=FBYsei0LDpJKbaVsnbefjEP0VKVD7aQhifBsKoRIZbM=; b=ZMoYx+cSNl2TI8yuzVYgACYm01gOHjbHY+ku/4OlTmJWfPKP36l5vty/2D2yAM0gnf l0d0s6wjP0Hh1Wrnb2M0KeHkfyjOZbUQJxNuy75un+Ef/xV98GmBPBrz2fGyeCGcVWrg Rh4rdUx9uIbeaqpSBP09EoppeEamb2x0RJdBMX1D/Hn3djks79+Y5LdqoyBxSVnCVu9r o6TFSekJAPECfq2m6ZizeAx34nGnREihqdqhCcSNyhyQr8aKYbjdFsSmsWFm4OszWbUw QRc6BNpHUjEroRP8tH0Ae3phxQtZtWwyOQSdfvzXniLuPE6MguePDLr/21ec8SWafkbN vECA== X-Received: by 10.180.74.204 with SMTP id w12mr4687030wiv.7.1356611300398; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:20 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.75.231 with SMTP id f7ls3545021wiw.6.gmail; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.201.1 with SMTP id a1mr38528906eeo.3.1356611298790; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.201.1 with SMTP id a1mr38528905eeo.3.1356611298774; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from dd17822.kasserver.com (dd17822.kasserver.com. [85.13.138.119]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z44si11268180een.0.2012.12.27.04.28.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 27 Dec 2012 04:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) client-ip=85.13.138.119; Received: from samsa (brln-4dbabe02.pool.mediaWays.net [77.186.190.2]) by dd17822.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id F109C8650F7 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:28:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:28:17 +0100 From: v4hn To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} Message-ID: <20121227122817.GI7855@samsa.fritz.box> References: <1356578353.49070.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1356579813.57137.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+ZmrHH5cGjskQnY1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: me@v4hn.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) smtp.mail=me@v4hn.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --+ZmrHH5cGjskQnY1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 09:22:41PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Fine, whatever. Whether or not I'm wrong about the equivalence of {pa > plise} and {pa lo plise}, my statement that {pa plise} suffices for "any > apple" is still valid. I'm sorry, but I can't see how it could. If {pa plise} means "exactly one apple", then how does this _exclude_ that you know which apple you are talking about? I really like the proposed phrase {ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi}. Syntactically it does not really state that I don't know/care which thing I'm talking about the same way "any", "irgendein", etc. do it, but due to pragmatics it seems to work out. At least I can't construct a reading which involves me wanting a specific apple. In such a situation uttering this phrase seems inappropriate to me. Any opinions? v4hn --+ZmrHH5cGjskQnY1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlDcPuEACgkQMBKLZs4+wjzIFwCfYaZPm91xuNMKFXwHvkLWuX/2 9dMAnA1BnpjdLR4p6rtx1hzq85pKRFTh =Q6V4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+ZmrHH5cGjskQnY1--