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Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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What he said, basically.

On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:39 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

> ko dunda pa plise mi is "make it true that there exists exactly one apple
> that you give to me." If you have an apple in mind and say that, then
> you're not conveying that you have one in mind at all. So yeah, {pa plise}
> does work here.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la latro'a
>
> On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:28 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 09:22:41PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
>> > Fine, whatever. Whether or not I'm wrong about the equivalence of {pa
>> > plise} and {pa lo plise}, my statement that {pa plise} suffices for "any
>> > apple" is still valid.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I can't see how it could.
>>
>> If {pa plise} means "exactly one apple", then how does this _exclude_
>> that you know which apple you are talking about?
>>
>> I really like the proposed phrase {ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi}.
>> Syntactically it does not really state that I don't know/care which thing
>> I'm talking
>> about the same way "any", "irgendein", etc. do it, but due to pragmatics
>> it seems to work out.
>> At least I can't construct a reading which involves me wanting a specific
>> apple.
>> In such a situation uttering this phrase seems inappropriate to me.
>>
>> Any opinions?
>>
>>
>> v4hn
>>
>
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>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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What he said, basically.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 27, =
2012 at 5:39 AM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blindb=
ravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">ko dunda pa plise mi is &quot;make it true t=
hat there exists exactly one apple that you give to me.&quot; If you have a=
n apple in mind and say that, then you&#39;re not conveying that you have o=
ne in mind at all. So yeah, {pa plise} does work here.<div class=3D"im HOEn=
Zb">
<br>
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a<br><br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><di=
v class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:28 AM, =
v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">=
me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 09:22:41PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:<br>
&gt; Fine, whatever. Whether or not I&#39;m wrong about the equivalence of =
{pa<br>
&gt; plise} and {pa lo plise}, my statement that {pa plise} suffices for &q=
uot;any<br>
&gt; apple&quot; is still valid.<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;m sorry, but I can&#39;t see how it could.<br>
<br>
If {pa plise} means &quot;exactly one apple&quot;, then how does this _excl=
ude_<br>
that you know which apple you are talking about?<br>
<br>
I really like the proposed phrase {ko dunda da poi plise ku&#39;o mi}.<br>
Syntactically it does not really state that I don&#39;t know/care which thi=
ng I&#39;m talking<br>
about the same way &quot;any&quot;, &quot;irgendein&quot;, etc. do it, but =
due to pragmatics it seems to work out.<br>
At least I can&#39;t construct a reading which involves me wanting a specif=
ic apple.<br>
In such a situation uttering this phrase seems inappropriate to me.<br>
<br>
Any opinions?<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>

<p></p>

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