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Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}
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On Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:36:38 PM UTC+4, v4hn wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 07:39:14AM -0500, Ian Johnson wrote: 
> > ko dunda pa plise mi is "make it true that there exists exactly one 
> apple 
> > that you give to me." 
>
> > If you have an apple in mind and say that, then you're not conveying 
> > that you have one in mind at all. 
>
> Completely understood and absolutely right. 
>
> However, as far as I can see {ko dunda pa plise mi} does not explicitly 
> say whether or not you have a specific apple in mind. 
>


Pardon for a silly question. 
But if you have something in mind, isn't it an attitudinal?
 

> It's just, that I didn't specify it, if I have one in mind. 
> In my opinion it's still a valid counterquestion to ask "Which one?" here, 
> don't you think so? 
>
> Also, if you answer with {pa plise} again, it might be a bit stupid, but 
> still 
> it's a reasonable answer to say "I got that part, but which one do you 
> want?" 
> in my opinion. 
>
> The question is, whether there is a way to _spell out_ that you _don't_ 
> have one in mind instead of omitting further information and waiting 
> for the listener to recognize the conversational implicature. 
>
> No such way, which does not explicitly state {ko cuxna} or {mi na pensi lo 
> selsteci}, 
> was mentioned up to now _as far as I understood everything_ 
> and even the {ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi} seems to rest on a very 
> strong 
> conversational implicature instead of explicitly stating that you don't 
> care/know which one you'll get. 
>
> That is because it doesn't seem to be a problem to me to add 
>
> {ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi .ije mi djica lonu do dunda lo zunle traji 
> mi}. 
>
> However, it is weird to say something like "Give me any apple. I want the 
> leftmost one." 
> or "Gib mir irgendeinen Apfel. Ich will den ganz Linken." (in my mother 
> tongue). 
>
>
> Any opinions? 
>
>
> v4hn 
>

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<br><br>On Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:36:38 PM UTC+4, v4hn wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 07:39:14AM -0=
500, Ian Johnson wrote:
<br>&gt; ko dunda pa plise mi is "make it true that there exists exactly on=
e apple
<br>&gt; that you give to me."
<br>
<br>&gt; If you have an apple in mind and say that, then you're not conveyi=
ng
<br>&gt; that you have one in mind at all.
<br>
<br>Completely understood and absolutely right.
<br>
<br>However, as far as I can see {ko dunda pa plise mi} does not explicitly
<br>say whether or not you have a specific apple in mind.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Pardon for a silly ques=
tion.&nbsp;</div><div>But if you have something in mind, isn't it an attitu=
dinal?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">I=
t's just, that I didn't specify it, if I have one in mind.
<br>In my opinion it's still a valid counterquestion to ask "Which one?" he=
re,
<br>don't you think so?
<br>
<br>Also, if you answer with {pa plise} again, it might be a bit stupid, bu=
t still
<br>it's a reasonable answer to say "I got that part, but which one do you =
want?"
<br>in my opinion.
<br>
<br>The question is, whether there is a way to _spell out_ that you _don't_
<br>have one in mind instead of omitting further information and waiting
<br>for the listener to recognize the conversational implicature.
<br>
<br>No such way, which does not explicitly state {ko cuxna} or {mi na pensi=
 lo selsteci},
<br>was mentioned up to now _as far as I understood everything_
<br>and even the {ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi} seems to rest on a very st=
rong
<br>conversational implicature instead of explicitly stating that you don't
<br>care/know which one you'll get.
<br>
<br>That is because it doesn't seem to be a problem to me to add
<br>
<br>{ko dunda da poi plise ku'o mi .ije mi djica lonu do dunda lo zunle tra=
ji mi}.
<br>
<br>However, it is weird to say something like "Give me any apple. I want t=
he leftmost one."
<br>or "Gib mir irgendeinen Apfel. Ich will den ganz Linken." (in my mother=
 tongue).
<br>
<br>
<br>Any opinions?
<br>
<br>
<br>v4hn
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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