Yes, L4B can also be u= pgraded. I hope I can import it into the new wiki some time in future.

A CLL in lojban itself is pretty useles= s, because at the moment we have maybe 50 fluent speakers as lojbab has poi= nted out.

Exactly. "At the moment", the= moment that lasts for 25 years.

The other issue I have with your email is that you propose that this work b= e undertaken but never specify by whom. Lojban is a lot like a wide open-so= urce project (Gnome, Linux kernel, KDE) as opposed to a narrow-focus single= application. Thus, if someone wants X done, said someone DOES X, and solic= its others to aid them. Nothing you said in your original email or any repl= ies gives any indication this is more than a theoretical you want "someone = else" to do. So unless you plan on personally leading the work effort on yo= ur proposal (which likely means you get to do 90%+ of it singlehandedly - n= othing about you personally, just the lack of helping hands on *any* lojban= or LLG effort), there is not much more to say. Shit, or get off the pot.

Unfortunately I almost agree with = that. Although I'm sure some of lojbanists will do similar things soon.

I'm just announcing my plans. But others might agree with this plan,= join the efforts, make necessary corrections to the plan etc.

&n= bsp;

On Thu, 2012-12-27 at 05:23 -0800, la gleki wrote:
1. The CLL is a tool to raise money in Lojbanistan. Yet even CLL 1.1 wi= ll be grammatically incorrect. What is the reason to raise money from somet= hing broken? Present something perfect and the book will become a bestselle= r.

2. The CLL is useless pretty much. It doesn't teach people language.

3. The CLL is written in English and is very long. Translating to other= languages is tiresome and the current github format doesn't allow synchron= ous updates to other languages.

If you love english it's your choice. All languages are equal to me. Ex= cept lojban. And I don't have any special love for English.

Now why do we need the CLL? To provide the most detailed description fo= r experienced users? Well, that's a good idea. But why using English here?

Here is my proposal.

1. Present a short dictionary with definitions readable by humans. Just= a short pdf file without any search capabilities will do. This is a task t= hat is very easy to complete.

2. Update and develop the Waves 2.0 (from la klaku's original lessons).= The goal is that people that use only these Waves and a dictionary can sta= rt speaking Lojban and reach fluency. The second goal is that Waves must be= as short and comprehensive at the same time as possible.

3. jbo-CLL.

When the person successfully completes the previous item ey can move to= this level. This book will give the most detailed and contemporary descrip= tion of the language that a fluent speaker is able to read and understand. = It's written in simple lojban but describes complicated issues.

Consequences.

1. translating the Waves to other languages is easier cuz they are shor= t and written in a simple language.

2. No need (and pretty useless) to translate jbo-CLL.

Some may say that CLL 1.1 is very important (and thus they implicitly a= dvertise English, not Lojban). I don't understand where the money obtained = from selling the books go to (to advertising lojban?). It's the perfect des= ign, not any advertisements that can make Lojban popular.

Money provide nothing. Human desire provide everything.

If 10 000 people around the world find lojban awesome and reach fluency= all most important goals are complete.

That's the plan how we can make Lojban much more popular, learnable and= well-known around the world, not just among a group of geeks who can speak= English.

P.S. Recently I've discovered that much stuff on lernu.net (a web site for Esperanto learners) = has much information written exclusively in Esperanto, not even in English.

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