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[68.230.241.215]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g9si13668056eeo.1.2012.12.29.05.40.38; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 05:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.215 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.215; Received: from eastrmimpo305 ([68.230.241.237]) by eastrmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20121229134037.DCCO8874.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo305> for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 08:40:37 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([98.169.148.216]) by eastrmimpo305 with cox id hRgd1k0044gNKFm01RgdWR; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 08:40:37 -0500 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020205.50DEF2D5.01D6,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=QvDcLCOd c=1 sm=1 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:17 a=YsUzL_8ObRgA:10 a=IPHh7_3Ra0sA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=aB2t1-zLDNoA:10 a=OD79BkM_stvJmExKV8YA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=MjTYcY7vjD7f3yxn:21 a=Ebu6ueA8A7ABt4u2:21 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <50DEF2D2.6080309@lojban.org> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 08:40:34 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation? References: <20121227222129.GN7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121227222753.GG18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121227231105.GO7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121227232206.GI18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121227232732.GP7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121227233537.GJ18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121227235946.GQ7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121228000348.GL18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121228185329.GO18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121228215107.GR7855@samsa.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: <20121228215107.GR7855@samsa.fritz.box> X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.215 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / v4hn wrote: > What's up with http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Procedure and the checkpoints? > I know it says "obsolete" there, but still it is well thought out > and looks like a good infrastracture to get going again. It WAS a good infrastructure, when we had a dozen or more people actively working on it. But that didn't last. Everyone was doing their own thing, because that is how this community has always worked. As a result, any topic that was well-settled got little attention (and continued undocumented), and things that were contentious turned into endless discussion that distracted people from doing productive stuff that would actually move the process along. The bottom line is that no one had enough time (consistently over the long haul) to make the thing work. Nick Nicolas, the original jatna, became burned out and frustrated with the lack of progress, because even his skills weren't enough to herd cats. Robin took over, in the absence of other volunteers, and had only limited success. > I know the BPFK is not dead, I recognize a lot of names on the member list, > and I haven't been around for too long. It isn't dead. It just has nothing to do as a GROUP, because there haven't enough individuals actually doing the individual things that need to get done, which are mostly boring and time-consuming, (or requiring specialized knowledge). > But it looks like that to me > because there weren't /any/ "official" announcements concerning decisions That is because there have been no such decisions, and there won't be any until after CLL 1.1 is done. We have to document the status quo before we consider changes, or people won't know what is being proposed to change. Even then, changes will be very limited. Only what is actually broken should be fixed prescriptively. The language design era is supposedly done. Future change should evolve out of usage, with changes merely serving as documentation of what actual Lojbanists are doing with the language. > or even new official proposals There have never been ANY official proposals since byfy started. > or any other progress within the last year. The progress, such that it is, is whatever Robin says that it is. He was granted essentially dictatorial powers until (at least) such time as CLL is updated. > I only heard of a couple of draft-proposals by people who explicitly state > that they are _not_ members of the BPFK No one is in a position to evaluate a draft proposal. And a proposal to be considered will have to include the proposed changes to CLL among other things. I doubt that anyone in recent years has ever written up a proposed change with anywhere near the detail that will be expected. > and some complains about > infrastructure/tools which need fixing (jbovlaste, autoposting of texts, > TeX-problems, ...). This is no development, it's maintenance as far as I can see. It is enabling Robin to get his job done, with as little possible demands on his limited time. The main job right now is editorial, and we haven't come up with a way to farm out editorial tasks. (Perhaps if the original byfy structure had been organized around CLL chapters rather than selma'o, we might have learned how, but the original focus was on making decisions, not on documenting things to any consistent standard, and the documentation never got done.) As such, we are stuck with having one editor attempting to get things done in his limited spare time. lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.