On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Bob LeChevalier= , President and Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
=

v4hn wrote:

What's up with http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Procedure and th= e checkpoints?
I know it says "obsolete" there, but still it is well thought out=
and looks like a good infrastracture to get going again.

It WAS a good infrastructure, when we had a dozen or more people actively w= orking on it. =A0But that didn't last. =A0Everyone was doing their own = thing, because that is how this community has always worked. =A0As a result= , any topic that was well-settled got little attention (and continued undoc= umented), and things that were contentious turned into endless discussion t= hat distracted people from doing productive stuff that would actually move = the process along. =A0The bottom line is that no one had enough time (consi= stently over the long haul) to make the thing work. =A0Nick Nicolas, the or= iginal jatna, became burned out and frustrated with the lack of progress, b= ecause even his skills weren't enough to herd cats. =A0Robin took over,= in the absence of other volunteers, and had only limited success.

I know the BPFK is not dead, I recognize a lot of names on the member list,=
and I haven't been around for too long.

It isn't dead. =A0It just has nothing to do as a GROUP, because there h= aven't enough individuals actually doing the individual things that nee= d to get done, which are mostly boring and time-consuming, (or requiring sp= ecialized knowledge).

> But it looks like that to me

because there weren't /any/ "official" announcements concerni= ng decisions

That is because there have been no such decisions, and there won't be a= ny until after CLL 1.1 is done. =A0We have to document the status quo befor= e we consider changes, or people won't know what is being proposed to c= hange.

Even then, changes will be very limited. Only what is actually broken shoul= d be fixed prescriptively.

The language design era is supposedly done. =A0Future change should evolve = out of usage, with changes merely serving as documentation of what actual L= ojbanists are doing with the language.

or even new official proposals

There have never been ANY official proposals since byfy started.

or any other progress within the last year.

The progress, such that it is, is whatever Robin says that it is. =A0He was= granted essentially dictatorial powers until (at least) such time as CLL i= s updated.

I only heard of a couple of draft-proposals by people who explicitly state<= br> that they are _not_ members of the BPFK

No one is in a position to evaluate a draft proposal. =A0And a proposal to = be considered will have to include the proposed changes to CLL among other = things. =A0I doubt that anyone in recent years has ever written up a propos= ed change with anywhere near the detail that will be expected.

and some complains about
infrastructure/tools which need fixing (jbovlaste, autoposting of texts, TeX-problems, ...). This is no development, it's maintenance as far as = I can see.

It is enabling Robin to get his job done, with as little possible demands o= n his limited time.

The main job right now is editorial, and we haven't come up with a way = to farm out editorial tasks. =A0(Perhaps if the original byfy structure had= been organized around CLL chapters rather than selma'o, we might have = learned how, but the original focus was on making decisions, not on documen= ting things to any consistent standard, and the documentation never got don= e.) =A0As such, we are stuck with having one editor attempting to get thing= s done in his limited spare time.

Perhaps crowd-sourcing? I had some success with that = when I wanted to get human audio for all the gismu. I had started out with = the intention of doing that work myself, but after about 180 gismu, I got s= ick of it, so I parsed it into chunks and sent an announcement on the group= saying, basically, "I don't want to do this anymore! You guys do = this now!". As of today, all but ~100 gismu have been done, and 50 of = them are my fault.

Possibly something similar could be done in this scenario? It takes a b= it of setting up the "chunks", but I can tell you, the chunk setu= p is much, much, MUCH less work than doing the work on your own.
=A0

lojbab

--
Bob LeChevalier =A0 =A0lojbab@lojban.org =A0 =A0www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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