Received: from mail-ea0-f190.google.com ([209.85.215.190]:59128)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBDUNF3UDXIJBB2FR7WDAKGQE63T7INI@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Tp3S4-0004sZ-G6; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:30 -0800
Received: by mail-ea0-f190.google.com with SMTP id i1sf4892662eaa.17
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:09 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf:date:from
         :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type
         :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe;
        bh=dQbvqtvVsDzaHMrJl6eUtZHVbVmkMNgnuhIkvPmvBiQ=;
        b=TyZsU8wD5nYxChcqyaWKODPE5hDK18eY+H8pQkux5BnoUChe2g5dbht2dgCMfMp+CD
         6x5B9fVTOHfk43UpN//5tn5hwcATIStXxIc+8yBZCSbojlbXfzRMYVFvWwSK286a58m6
         kXYa0ZS5+ZbkXd9BaId/R/4NTB3OQHSgQe64M7H0S0nUCaAY3+QuTTl36DgZaqy418va
         ZpiCROvsLvDtsPqM/npI/IiLcXxTQZssav9fSvGQqU5LtcevB3d5LGrYXVrVpI1zhjz/
         1/a/gBKy5wMbyNA5BnsFtTqwZVX5NmrzN/EJ1dW6+1nEf8PfGvoFBO6/1xKWJZTm4WUf
         9pdA==
X-Received: by 10.180.95.199 with SMTP id dm7mr5087956wib.18.1356814568791;
        Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:08 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.181.13.78 with SMTP id ew14ls5782940wid.20.canary; Sat, 29 Dec
 2012 12:56:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.14.180.2 with SMTP id i2mr47072807eem.1.1356814568065;
        Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.14.180.2 with SMTP id i2mr47072806eem.1.1356814568054;
        Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dd17822.kasserver.com (dd17822.kasserver.com. [85.13.138.119])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z44si13943550een.0.2012.12.29.12.56.07
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:56:08 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) client-ip=85.13.138.119;
Received: from samsa (brln-4db8178a.pool.mediaWays.net [77.184.23.138])
	by dd17822.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 368A4865032
	for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:56:07 +0100 (CET)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:56:06 +0100
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?
Message-ID: <20121229205606.GB23303@samsa.fritz.box>
References: <20121227231105.GO7855@samsa.fritz.box>
 <20121227232206.GI18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <20121227232732.GP7855@samsa.fritz.box>
 <20121227233537.GJ18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <20121227235946.GQ7855@samsa.fritz.box>
 <20121228000348.GL18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <CAMKwHj2WkyJHuG13rVE37=MY6mw5oFGouAvP1PL0RVFMhv9ruA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121228185329.GO18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <20121228215107.GR7855@samsa.fritz.box>
 <50DEF2D2.6080309@lojban.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="JYK4vJDZwFMowpUq"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <50DEF2D2.6080309@lojban.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Original-Sender: me@v4hn.de
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com:
 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain
 of me@v4hn.de) smtp.mail=me@v4hn.de
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /


--JYK4vJDZwFMowpUq
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 08:40:34AM -0500, Bob LeChevalier, President and Fo=
under - LLG wrote:
> v4hn wrote:
> >I know the BPFK is not dead, I recognize a lot of names on the member li=
st,
> >and I haven't been around for too long.
>=20
> It isn't dead.  It just has nothing to do as a GROUP, because there
> haven't enough individuals actually doing the individual things that
> need to get done, which are mostly boring and time-consuming, (or
> requiring specialized knowledge).

Also, as someone just mentioned some people just don't
know what needs to be done and how they can help!

> > But it looks like that to me
> >because there weren't /any/ "official" announcements concerning decisions
>=20
> That is because there have been no such decisions, and there won't
> be any until after CLL 1.1 is done.  We have to document the status
> quo before we consider changes, or people won't know what is being
> proposed to change.

If CLL 1.1 is not about making decisions, not about including proposals, et=
c.
then WHAT THE @!#$ _is it about_? Just typesetting?

The work that needs to be done for the baseline is nicely described here
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Community+Work
and I understand why it is hard to make progress with this..
(Though it seems, this is the best place to start contributing)
How does one get feedback on the stuff he wrote there,
given that he attempts to update some definitions?
Just wait for an email from someone who got notified about the change?

Does everything in there need to be finished for CLL 1.1 or do I mix up stu=
ff here?
Will these definitions be included in the CLL (1.1?)?

> >or even new official proposals
>=20
> There have never been ANY official proposals since byfy started.

At least in practice it seems to me like xorlo is such an official proposal
which is still not incorporated(whatever this means exactly).

> >or any other progress within the last year.
>=20
> The progress, such that it is, is whatever Robin says that it is.
> He was granted essentially dictatorial powers until (at least) such
> time as CLL is updated.

That's a rather blurry and - given that Robin does not even have time
to describe things - non-helpful description of what should be done.
Ok, he has dictatorial powers. But if few other people know what to do,
then something is severely wrong...

Concerning editorial work...
There is a TODO file/the issues page on github, but a lot of items on that =
list
are just incomprehensible to me. What exactly does e.g.
"<lojbanization> tables are shit" mean?


v4hn

--JYK4vJDZwFMowpUq
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlDfWOYACgkQMBKLZs4+wjyQ/wCgiK0noRzVXqQ79DNJLMEyZs/H
kaIAnjVpwK47mC7WCkK60g7r1qmWO3zv
=aOf4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--JYK4vJDZwFMowpUq--