Received: from mail-ye0-f191.google.com ([209.85.213.191]:40735) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TpIWc-0000HE-Vf; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:02:12 -0800 Received: by mail-ye0-f191.google.com with SMTP id m5sf6909332yen.8 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:01:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9IC9i8Wrsz0dYvpX9nBk0RyBtUie8cOPAICIhVS85a4=; b=CzVuHjZCmV26vgJJg+D7qvdmqh10wg4fXbv7C1kKeQU0T7EoimPCX3XVLFz/wFiHQX 2bqq4Uqkry7Z8fGggdiTGLNVrb3/uKWN2nS9O2M+3d/6kDXQguvUJhOk+GiA7Vt3SOjO y8tRG9WjpqX8fcc7qlt0roaTubvdom1f9VNsbntyKCqFgYi1Q1pKTg5XqHhRyUAG7smX KJBOc6ig55HpIss8J3BuHIUe6f1hOXOUCcMp4i/RJRuRZyzefhzyyTaUdkdqXr+LKSH/ PmJgOFI4O3XDjAPh+cDYevcaiOoHqavkUpYLAMGsgTU2QQnU9dyoyuj9BtRIzRIUMPwp Jyug== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9IC9i8Wrsz0dYvpX9nBk0RyBtUie8cOPAICIhVS85a4=; b=LPpQiaEa9QjfU32pD8ytcLV3Wd4XrccR/wZaFwHJYevw3FlCe+000cz5LShczx0wMS FTImjEu7BOACaSXuN/SJgoGD8o+jdrxUfi22uU0or1nMafvn+l5aUJd2rpRJhGqWVGnp LIDo60cFCUdjCvBo9sEfylfC/uKvlBj6KC2ET5vFnQ+eZ5WMBXFT9knHNdI73R5FIMBN /lnE40uyonuaf9a5wwiqqITIFI46Ray2ipJQyDcCGR24RBQEdR1A5C1qg0yAtg4CbiW1 tIbbnOXCkOeL6vPUhEK6c6s1ObFhwGPo03Mvssaehd9h3WYshPKZXbSCH6kbPKUrlR48 nvlQ== X-Received: by 10.49.1.162 with SMTP id 2mr2559046qen.2.1356872512519; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:01:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.35.73 with SMTP id f9ls5211571qej.27.gmail; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:01:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.49.116.135 with SMTP id jw7mr5842654qeb.10.1356872512055; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:01:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 05:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <74daaf70-4652-4b75-85fa-dc838f155234@googlegroups.com> References: <502A81EB.2000005@gmail.com> <502A9A2C.20606@gmail.com> <55e70b7d-e835-423b-8557-8ae88b88a4e2@googlegroups.com> <504112FA.4010001@gmail.com> <5041FE65.9030902@gmx.de> <5f11ab31-5816-474c-84cb-c0b50e6aa3aa@googlegroups.com> <74daaf70-4652-4b75-85fa-dc838f155234@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_197_30515992.1356872511746" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_197_30515992.1356872511746 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:00:59 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: > > > In order to understand what was going on in 1996 here are some examples > from http://www.loglan.org/Articles/mia-subjunctives.html (most > lojbanists can't read loglandic texts). > I replaced loglandic {mia} with {mi'ai} and converted all loglandic > examples to lojban. > I should note that {mia} is basically {va'o} so {mi'ai} is an adhoc cmavo > here. > I didn't translate sio/dau/biu words and sirto. Five Other "Auxiliary > Verbs" might have other translations to lojban so i marked them with "?". > Anyway their english translation is the reference for searching for > lojbanic analogs. > > The Basic Mi'ai Plan > > 1) *Mi gleki mi'ai lonu mi nolraitru* > *I am happy in-an-imaginary-world-in-which I am king.* > *I would/could be happy in a world where I were king.* > *I would/could be happy if I were king.* > > * > * > > 2) *Mi gleki mi'ai da.* > *I am-happy given-some-unspecified cause x (in some unmentioned imaginary > world y).* > *I could/would be happy.** > * > > * > * > > Effect Likelihood > > 1) *ko'a sio mabru.* > *X must be/certainly is a mammal.** > * > > * > * > > 2) *ko'a dau mabru.* > > *X should be/probably is a mammal.** > * > > * > * > > 3) *ko'a** biu mabru.* > *X might be/possibly is a mammal.** > * > > * > * > > 4) *lo nu** ko'a mabru cu sirto(=fatci?)/lakne/cumki ti da.* > *The-state-of X's being-a-mammal is certain/-probable/possible > given-these-conditions (those presumably present in the world of speech) > and-some-unspecified-knowledge-system-x*.* > * > > > 5) *ju'o**/la'a/a'o da mamla.* > *Certainly/Probably/Perhaps X is a mammal.** > * > > * > * > > World-Likelihood > > 1) *mi gleki mi'ai lonu mi nolraitru.* > *I would be happy if I were king.* > > How do we add the English mumble *...but I'll never be one*? Actually, > quite simply. By using our alphabetic anaphora, we can co-designate *lonu > mi nolraitru *by the letter word *ny* (the first letter of its principal > brivla) and say > > 2) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitru i je ny na cumki.* > > 2) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei na cumki mi nolraitru.* > *I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being > king) is not possible.* > > 3) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitru ije** ny cumki jenai lakne.* > > 3) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei cumki jenai lakne mi nolraitru.* > > *I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being > king) is possible but not likely.* > > 4) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitru**, ije ny lakne jenai se nibli.* > 4) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei lakne jenai se nibli mi nolraitru**.* > *I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being > king) is likely but not certain.* > > 5) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitru**, ije ny nibli.* > 5) *Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei se nibli mi nolraitru**.* > > *I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being > king) is certain.* > > * > * > > Five Other "Auxiliary Verbs" > > > - *djica *(4v) *X will/intends/is motivated to do Y for motive Z* > - *kakne* (3v) *X can/is able to do Y* > - *?bilga *(3v) *X should/ought to do Y* > > *Five Other "Auxiliary Verbs"* djica (4v) X will/intends/is motivated to do Y for motive Z kakne (3v) X can/is able to do Y ?bilga (3v) X should/ought to do Y ?se rinju (3v) X must/is obliged to do Y ?jai se curmi X may/is allowed/permitted to do Y -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/2cj-KCuopyUJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_197_30515992.1356872511746 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:00:59 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:

In order to understand what was going on in 1996 here are so= me examples from http://www.loglan.org/Articles/mia-subju= nctives.html (most lojbanists can't read loglandic texts).
I replaced loglandic {mia} with {mi'ai} and = converted all loglandic examples to lojban.
I should note that {mia} is basically {va'o} so= {mi'ai} is an adhoc cmavo here.
I didn't translate sio/dau/biu words and sirto.&n= bsp;Five Other "Au= xiliary Verbs" might have other translations to lojban so i marked them wit= h "?". Anyway their english translation is the reference for searching for = lojbanic analogs.

The Basic Mi'ai Plan


1) Mi gleki mi'ai lo= nu mi nolraitru
I am happy in-a= n-imaginary-world-in-which I am king.
I would/could be happy in a world where I were king.
I would/could be happy if I were king.
=

2) Mi gleki mi'= ai da.
I am-happy given-some-un= specified cause x (in some unmentioned imaginary world y).
I could/would be happy.

Effect Likelihood


1) ko'a sio mabru.
X= must be/certainly is a mammal.

2) ko'a da= u mabru.
X should be/probably is a mammal.<= /i>
ko'a biu mabru.
X might be/possibly is a mammal.

4) lo nu ko'a mabru cu s= irto(=3Dfatci?)/lakne/cumki ti da.
The-state-of X's being-a-mammal is certain/-probable/possible given-the= se-conditions (those presumably present in the world of speech) and-some-un= specified-knowledge-system-x.=
=
5) ju'o= /la'a/a'o da mamla.
Certainly/P= robably/Perhaps X is a mammal.
=

World-Likelihood


1) mi gleki mi'ai&= nbsp;lonu mi nolraitru.
I would= be happy if I were king.

How do we add the English mumble&nbs= p;...but I'll never be one? Actual= ly, quite simply. By using our alphabetic anaphora, we can co-designate&nbs= p;lonu mi nolraitru by the le= tter word ny (the first = letter of its principal brivla) and say

2) Mi g= leki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitru i je ny na cumki.
2) Mi gl= eki mi'ai lo nu sei na cumki mi nolraitru.
I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my= being king) is not possible.
3) Mi gleki mi'= ai lo nu mi nolraitru ije ny = cumki jenai lakne.
3) Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei cumki jenai= lakne mi nolraitru.
I would be happy i= f I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being king) is possible but n= ot likely.
4) Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu= mi nolraitru, ije ny lakne jenai = se nibli.
4= ) Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei= lakne jenai se nibli mi nolraitru= .
I would be happy if I were ki= ng, and-jointly b (the event of my being king) is likely but not certain.
5)=  Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu mi nolraitr= u, ije ny nibli.
5) Mi gleki mi'ai lo nu sei se nibli mi nolraitru<= b style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:bas= eline;background-color:transparent">.
I would be happy if I were king, and-jointly b (the event of my being ki= ng) is certain.

Five Other "Auxiliary Ve= rbs"

  • djica (= 4v) X will/intends/is motivated t= o do Y for motive Z
  • kakne (3v) X can/is able to do Y
  • ?bilga (3v) X should/ought to do Y

Five = Other "Auxiliary Verbs"
djica (4v) X will/intends/is motivate= d to do Y for motive Z
kakne (3v) X can/is able to do Y
?bilga (3v) X should/ought to do Y
?se rinju (3v) X must/is obli= ged to do Y
?jai se curmi X may/is allowed/permitted to do Y = ;

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/2c= j-KCuopyUJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_197_30515992.1356872511746--