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[68.230.241.214]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h20si11921682vdg.3.2012.12.30.07.11.44; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 07:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.214 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.214; Received: from eastrmimpo209 ([68.230.241.224]) by eastrmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20121230151143.KHMN18834.eastrmfepo102.cox.net@eastrmimpo209> for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:11:43 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([98.169.148.216]) by eastrmimpo209 with cox id hrBj1k0064gNKFm01rBjYH; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:11:43 -0500 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020202.50E059AF.006C,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=E5JPVNhl c=1 sm=1 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:17 a=YsUzL_8ObRgA:10 a=IPHh7_3Ra0sA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=aB2t1-zLDNoA:10 a=Q8TAuXr79Y9tuyA2jy0A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <50E059AF.4090206@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:11:43 -0500 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation? References: <20121227231105.GO7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121227232206.GI18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121227232732.GP7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121227233537.GJ18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121227235946.GQ7855@samsa.fritz.box> <20121228000348.GL18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121228185329.GO18038@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121228215107.GR7855@samsa.fritz.box> <50DEF2D2.6080309@lojban.org> <20121229205606.GB23303@samsa.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.214 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Jonathan Jones wrote: > You're mixing stuff up. The above is what needs to be done to complete > the baseline, which is, simply put, documenting the definitions, usage, > etc. of all the words in Lojban, not including fu'ivla, zi'evla, cmevla > and lujvo. > > The CLL is, basically, a complete description of the grammar of Lojban, > whereas the BPFK baseline is a complete description of the vocabulary. > And I'm being overly simplistic here, of course, but that is the gist of > the thing. That is correct. byfy started because I was incapable on my own of writing proper cmavo definitions for the Lojban dictionary. Cowan had come up with the selma'o catalog as a step in this process, and the selma'o catalog became CLL. That was in 1997. By 2002, we still had no set of cmavo definitions, and I realized that my whole baseline concept was bankrupt because I couldn't produce a dictionary. byfy was a solution to this problem, an organized approach to having others crowdsource what I could not complete by myself. > > >or even new official proposals > > > > There have never been ANY official proposals since byfy started. > > At least in practice it seems to me like xorlo is such an official > proposal > which is still not incorporated(whatever this means exactly). > > xorlo (and dotside, I believe) are officially part of the language. xorlo is, by special vote. dotside is not (yet) official, but is probably effectively so, because those of us who have not accepted it aren't doing much with the language. > Neither have been incorporated into the CLL yet, mostly because making > changes to the CLL as is is extremely difficult, and partly because > right now the focus is on making the CLL, as it is now content-wise, > into something that takes advantage of technologies that didn't exist at > the time of its writing, such as concurrent versioning, and the internet. Much better than I put it. When byfy started, "crowdsourcing" wasn't yet a word, and the only tools we had were modified primitive wiki programs. And I still work in Microsoft Word, conceptually back in the 90s. HTML and its tag-based relatives are all but unintelligible to me. So I am hardly one to explain this. > > >or any other progress within the last year. > > > > The progress, such that it is, is whatever Robin says that it is. > > He was granted essentially dictatorial powers until (at least) such > > time as CLL is updated. > > That's a rather blurry and - given that Robin does not even have time > to describe things - non-helpful description of what should be done. > Ok, he has dictatorial powers. But if few other people know what to do, > then something is severely wrong... > > Concerning editorial work... > There is a TODO file/the issues page on github, but a lot of items > on that list > are just incomprehensible to me. What exactly does e.g. > " tables are shit" mean? > > > Well, it means that tables that utilize the should not > be used, because they are "shit". I don't think he knows what " tables" are, or why they might be "shit". I don't know either, though I made a guess in my response. lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.