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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:10:25 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj1EbLaN__v5r9d3cbua=0ECPeSYst_U15HTMy+V0MAoAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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I'm only going to respond to this bit, because .lojbab.'s answer is similar
to what I'd've said on the rest. Also, a fair warning: I tried, and
completely, utterly failed, to be my usual polite self in my reply.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:28 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:

> > But this is something that must be discussed further.
>>
>> NOTHING "must" be discussed further.
>>
>> Things must be DONE, not "discussed".  Discussion is the enemy of
>> getting things done.
>>
>> And proposing changes for discussion, as you seem to habitually do,
>> makes paying attention to your proposals antithetical to getting things
>> done.
>>
>
> If you mean helping with CLL 1.1 i already expressed my opinion.
>
> As for rewriting cmavo definitions i dont understand how I can help.
> Do you wish i presented a ma'oste with new definitions? what would it
> change?
> everyone would ignore it.
>

No, no, no, a thousand times no. Why on Earth would you ever think that a
person who just expressed his complete and utter DISLIKE of DISCUSSION,
specifically because it is a DISTRACTION from DOING, would you ever think
he wants you to make any more suggestions?

He wants of you the same thing he wants of all of us- to shut up about our
ideas, STOP trying to fix perceived faults in the language, and just stop
endlessly debating how the language "ought" to be at least until the work
that NEEDS TO BE DONE before any of those thing matter in the slightest
GETS DONE.

Absolutely no changes will even be considered until that work is done, so
any proposals are a waste of your breath and our time.

When the baseline is complete, and not before, is when proposals may be
submitted for consideration- and there's a formal procedure for that, too.
Until then, it is an utterly pointless activity.

Every jbopre goes through the "proposal" phase, but most of us get through
it after one or two. You do one or two /a week/, and you've even said you
have no desire whatsoever for an voice in the official determinations of
the language, which makes one wonder what your reasons are, unless of
course you're trying to get us all to debate endlessly on pointless crap
that does nothing for the language.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--e89a8fb1f8402d870804d21c84c4
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I&#39;m only going to respond to this bit, because .lojbab.&#39;s answer is=
 similar to what I&#39;d&#39;ve said on the rest. Also, a fair warning: I t=
ried, and completely, utterly failed, to be my usual polite self in my repl=
y.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:28 AM, la gleki <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; But this is =
something that must be discussed further.
<br>
<br>NOTHING &quot;must&quot; be discussed further.
<br>
<br>Things must be DONE, not &quot;discussed&quot;. =A0Discussion is the en=
emy of=20
<br>getting things done.
<br>
<br>And proposing changes for discussion, as you seem to habitually do,=20
<br>makes paying attention to your proposals antithetical to getting things=
=20
<br>done.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>If you mean helping with CLL 1.1=
 i already expressed my opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>As for rewriting =
cmavo definitions i dont understand how I can help.</div><div>Do you wish i=
 presented a ma&#39;oste with new definitions? what would it change?</div>
<div>everyone would ignore it.</div></blockquote></div><br>No, no, no, a th=
ousand times no. Why on Earth would you ever think that a person who just e=
xpressed his complete and utter DISLIKE of DISCUSSION, specifically because=
 it is a DISTRACTION from DOING, would you ever think he wants you to make =
any more suggestions?<br>
<br>He wants of you the same thing he wants of all of us- to shut up about =
our ideas, STOP trying to fix perceived faults in the language, and just st=
op endlessly debating how the language &quot;ought&quot; to be at least unt=
il the work that NEEDS TO BE DONE before any of those thing matter in the s=
lightest GETS DONE.<br>
<br>Absolutely no changes will even be considered until that work is done, =
so any proposals are a waste of your breath and our time.<br><br>When the b=
aseline is complete, and not before, is when proposals may be submitted for=
 consideration- and there&#39;s a formal procedure for that, too. Until the=
n, it is an utterly pointless activity.<br>
<br>Every jbopre goes through the &quot;proposal&quot; phase, but most of u=
s get through it after one or two. You do one or two /a week/, and you&#39;=
ve even said you have no desire whatsoever for an voice in the official det=
erminations of the language, which makes one wonder what your reasons are, =
unless of course you&#39;re trying to get us all to debate endlessly on poi=
ntless crap that does nothing for the language.<br clear=3D"all">
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo piln=
o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Lu=
ke, I am your father. :D )<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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