Received: from mail-qc0-f183.google.com ([209.85.216.183]:41577) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TpWrj-0007kJ-Qi; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:54 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f183.google.com with SMTP id i13sf7184631qcs.20 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=omNC486dWaYhnnsuPMdVkfdI7F+ehsXwMxcQenNTlyc=; b=UZZImAJh8E7e2a7O1N+RvL+FVAREnvsSuKquu5Y/reZCI1edoriEE4acCPdXkWQ9/K ZOAwibaL8OxfDPyYwR8knfWemplRMpbJoyCOOSqcpDlg2RVpMY0/y/X0GuhVoX8sd76l jRtKV4r3R3vJKRbViV+lO8mA1WeRZJlrT39u3kaL8xBUMNahVWpIxcydiHkcbMFGh0Dr 8MIA0DaHuKxWkzm5jag1jaQsxviXULNDIWOvY5drj99syzuNWy+g7GdvY/UaoFfZv1zh axImW8QgEVWIaneuPBDWXVj3jLt4bUWGFb3AA2HezjJzccqHRn5f80eqKzvTFy+Xl+0n OlOQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=omNC486dWaYhnnsuPMdVkfdI7F+ehsXwMxcQenNTlyc=; b=uRAXQKAmu2jvbv51CQSSYiqLXP71t4jstgf0ACXE7edOt2ltUxSjgIdQwf3rYK4rfN gq0n5z87YYpfqPWay1N5jBdGgV8H4F22RIhlXklLF/nZRVF9T3eLRL+MabAPOs0VgCqE 5QcF/yV2z48m6p9muLZ9V6zX2riwt63Z/piFblaHQ3H81kpAbeQVzK5REeZAUkNFT6XB N1p+nDLFfRQ/Kbg9xtuHZE71tcrh1bBsdYNTX+grWdwBtUyxuoceRF8Z8HPaOWTflvli twWLc/EZiQtsOknUGmrG6KFEDBDWV/IZ8gdYV1Imhc36dhqDhpbYyPbjNz2mdr/hTa2O jZJw== X-Received: by 10.50.197.195 with SMTP id iw3mr13194469igc.10.1356927637070; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.212.39 with SMTP id nh7ls8648372igc.8.gmail; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.182.161 with SMTP id ef1mr31636162igc.7.1356927636004; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.182.161 with SMTP id ef1mr31636161igc.7.1356927635971; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com (mail-oa0-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hw1si3556601igc.3.2012.12.30.20.20.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.48; Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id h2so11387920oag.35 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.42.97 with SMTP id n1mr32812465obl.91.1356927635649; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.178.237 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:20:35 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Secondary meaning of {cevni} From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae93998ebb5748c04d21e55c8 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --14dae93998ebb5748c04d21e55c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:24 PM, .arpis. wrote: > Which is why I say misleading and not incorrect. > > Also, {la'oi Goa'uld cevni xu} by your definition (ignore if you haven't > seen Stargate SG-1)? > {.i go'i jenai go'i .i na cevni mi to fangypre po'o toi .i cevni lo gy. remna selfu} Yes and no. Not gods to me (just aliens), but gods to their human servants. > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, .arpis. wrote: >> >>> Then I believe that the jbovlaste definition of {cevni} is misleading: >>> >>> Definition: x1 is a/the god/deity of people(s)/religion x2 with dominion >>> over x3 [sphere]; x1 is divine. >>> >>> note the secondary definition. I would consider angels to be divine. >>> >> >> Well, then you're using a different sense of the word "divine" than >> jbovlaste is, because the sense of "divine" in the English definition of >> {cevni} is "(of or pertaining to a god): deific, godlike, godly", whereas >> you seem to be meaning "(eternal, holy): hallowed, holy, sacred". >> >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> Even demons, and if you stretch the meaning /really/ far, djinn. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM, .arpis. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> xu se cumki smuni lo ka ce'u ge angeli gi cevni >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> {cevni} can refer to many different things, but not angels. Gods, >>>>> goddesses, demi-god(esse)s, oni, and so on and so forth. >>>>> >>>>> But not angels. Angels are not gods, they aren't even god-like. Except >>>>> for maybe the archangels, they're barely above humans, and in many ways are >>>>> lower on the totem pole (like the complete lack of free will, emotion, or >>>>> creativity, for example). >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --14dae93998ebb5748c04d21e55c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:24 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Which is why I say misleading and not incorrect.
<= br>
Also, {la'oi Goa'uld cevni xu} by your definition (ignore = if you haven't seen Stargate SG-1)?

{.i = go'i jenai go'i .i na cevni mi to fangypre po'o toi .i cevni lo= gy. remna selfu}
Yes and no. Not gods to me (just aliens), but gods to their human servants.=
=A0
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I believe that the jbovlaste definition of {cevni} is= misleading:
  Definition: x1 is a/the god/deity of people(s)/relig=
ion x2 with dominion
       over x3 [sphere]; x1 is divine.
note the secondary definition. = I would consider angels to be divine.

= Well, then you're using a different sense of the word "divine"= ; than jbovlaste is, because the sense of "divine" in the English= definition of {cevni} is "(of or pertaining to a god): deific, godlik= e, godly", whereas you seem to be meaning "(eternal, holy): hallo= wed, holy, sacred".

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Sun, Dec = 30, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Even demons, and if yo= u stretch the meaning /really/ far, djinn.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= wrote:
On Sun, Dec = 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
xu se cumki smuni lo ka ce'u ge angeli gi cevni

<= /div>{cevni} can refer to many different things, but not angels. Gods, godd= esses, demi-god(esse)s, oni, and so on and so forth.

But not angels.= Angels are not gods, they aren't even god-like. Except for maybe the a= rchangels, they're barely above humans, and in many ways are lower on t= he totem pole (like the complete lack of free will, emotion, or creativity,= for example).

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )



--
mu'o = mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father= . :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
= mu'o mi'e .arpis.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--14dae93998ebb5748c04d21e55c8--