Received: from mail-ia0-f189.google.com ([209.85.210.189]:43016) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TpXDc-0008Bo-Bs; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:33 -0800 Received: by mail-ia0-f189.google.com with SMTP id b35sf7496871iac.6 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=LoPNjSHzAC6jafl7lDRayeauyuYWvoVpdljM1AOhirM=; b=yV5482EvdmEiKFMrzEyUztr06pbTFY5U1ypbZ6P55Q1IdkA66twn8t9QDLqBDM9Mv5 FP8ZyrZXzTj7RXBWRdilD8sXHH+BzxLcgt5TVftiCPfPljBcB9yGismLh8lDvLfjn9ca AoL+OSo3UOlsSnR9G8SHbngfJHMUfZA99H9w1cvYoWFB5aLGmXUUvNJSXFZSRFX+xByn mRzsYs+/MCBG9lHfcTtpGE9blCW32sG3EeTklrQV/hJliai76wEQ+KvHza0st25DOYVX DdFvBBuEUhUx+U2os1cZgcTC5OnfIUBSevBdJ0aNXjgPZtTReAwUuS91v2JpjpSoGSaE NNgg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=LoPNjSHzAC6jafl7lDRayeauyuYWvoVpdljM1AOhirM=; b=pkq45+OW5cp7pG/TRtF00mnaPH0DiJgESSWyzDXO3SHRMFVczYcg5zWG864Ag0azww 0D9S+ud7xwbKChKzgR2rx9VN9dNEvD0YV83p84T6F+zAlXUjI5l0i/MgmXmhdokNDwuR Z7GN+KXGKIjUanXGF2RoZvL9NmUwwvR/TpbEFnU21pNmqEA4D3IDQSbBZWua6Tn+9otR gspN8dQvCwayOZU1Z6PsHxVzzmkmiJQIKYPPIPh2Uu7HXwkPnX+9eRklv67KYrowWXJl s/UccZvT+mlOc0VMtCJGD9RFga6CfZsT9SAzgy0bysWttpwPaJfhbEeKn/1PNjzY0C9V RgIw== X-Received: by 10.50.37.242 with SMTP id b18mr13284867igk.6.1356928993880; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.152.147 with SMTP id uy19ls9056038igb.6.gmail; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.82.98 with SMTP id h2mr6913512pay.3.1356928993479; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.82.98 with SMTP id h2mr6913511pay.3.1356928993453; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f47.google.com (mail-da0-f47.google.com [209.85.210.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ab9si7915497pbd.1.2012.12.30.20.43.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.47; Received: by mail-da0-f47.google.com with SMTP id s35so5587103dak.6 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.69.1.9 with SMTP id bc9mr124184924pbd.61.1356928993342; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:43:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.15.70 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:42:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Alex Rozenshteyn Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:42:53 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Secondary meaning of {cevni} To: Lojban X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e0f05a2333a04d21ea6e4 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b2e0f05a2333a04d21ea6e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 So it seems like your notion of {cevni} focuses more centrally on worship and dominion than on divinity. On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:24 PM, .arpis. wrote: > >> Which is why I say misleading and not incorrect. >> >> Also, {la'oi Goa'uld cevni xu} by your definition (ignore if you haven't >> seen Stargate SG-1)? >> > > {.i go'i jenai go'i .i na cevni mi to fangypre po'o toi .i cevni lo gy. > remna selfu} > Yes and no. Not gods to me (just aliens), but gods to their human servants. > > >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, .arpis. wrote: >>> >>>> Then I believe that the jbovlaste definition of {cevni} is misleading: >>>> >>>> Definition: x1 is a/the god/deity of people(s)/religion x2 with dominion >>>> over x3 [sphere]; x1 is divine. >>>> >>>> note the secondary definition. I would consider angels to be divine. >>>> >>> >>> Well, then you're using a different sense of the word "divine" than >>> jbovlaste is, because the sense of "divine" in the English definition of >>> {cevni} is "(of or pertaining to a god): deific, godlike, godly", whereas >>> you seem to be meaning "(eternal, holy): hallowed, holy, sacred". >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> Even demons, and if you stretch the meaning /really/ far, djinn. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM, .arpis. >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> xu se cumki smuni lo ka ce'u ge angeli gi cevni >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> {cevni} can refer to many different things, but not angels. Gods, >>>>>> goddesses, demi-god(esse)s, oni, and so on and so forth. >>>>>> >>>>>> But not angels. Angels are not gods, they aren't even god-like. >>>>>> Except for maybe the archangels, they're barely above humans, and in many >>>>>> ways are lower on the totem pole (like the complete lack of free will, >>>>>> emotion, or creativity, for example). >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --047d7b2e0f05a2333a04d21ea6e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So it seems like your notion of {cevni} focuses more centr= ally on worship and dominion than on divinity.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:20 PM= , Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:24 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gma= il.com> wrote:
Which is why I say misleading and not incorrect.
<= br>
Also, {la'oi Goa'uld cevni xu} by your definition (ignore = if you haven't seen Stargate SG-1)?

{.i go'i jenai go'i .i na cevni mi to fangypre po'o toi .i = cevni lo gy. remna selfu}
Yes and no. Not gods to me (just aliens), but gods to their human servants.=
=A0
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I believe that the jbovlaste definition of {cevni} is= misleading:
  Definition: x1 is a/the god/deity of people(s)/relig=
ion x2 with dominion
       over x3 [sphere]; x1 is divine.
note the secondary definition. = I would consider angels to be divine.

= Well, then you're using a different sense of the word "divine"= ; than jbovlaste is, because the sense of "divine" in the English= definition of {cevni} is "(of or pertaining to a god): deific, godlik= e, godly", whereas you seem to be meaning "(eternal, holy): hallo= wed, holy, sacred".

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Sun, Dec = 30, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Even demons, and if yo= u stretch the meaning /really/ far, djinn.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= wrote:
On Sun, Dec = 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
xu se cumki smuni lo ka ce'u ge angeli gi cevni

<= /div>{cevni} can refer to many different things, but not angels. Gods, godd= esses, demi-god(esse)s, oni, and so on and so forth.

But not angels.= Angels are not gods, they aren't even god-like. Except for maybe the a= rchangels, they're barely above humans, and in many ways are lower on t= he totem pole (like the complete lack of free will, emotion, or creativity,= for example).

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )



--
mu'o = mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father= . :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
= mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

= .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
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