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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 11:15:22 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Quantifier exactness
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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"I like him more than you do" is incorrect. Since the quantified variable
is instantiated separately in each of the function applications, the
original sentence under exact quantifiers means it's more like "It is more
true that I like exactly one of them than it is true that you like exactly
one of them." This re-instantiation is why the original example is
counterintuitive. I'm not fully sure whether I would draw the same
conclusion from your second translation; I think I might, though, since
"one of them" is introduced twice (unlike arpis's previous translation,
which only introduces it once and hence makes it seem like the referent is
the same).

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:04 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 10:01:50AM -0500, .arpis. wrote:
> > > >>> > {mi zmadu do lo ni ce'u nelci pa lo re prenu}
> >
> > The sentence says to me "I, more than you, like one of the two people."
> > Unless you can give me an intuition for a translation that preserves
> exact
> > quantifier semantics (and just adding "exactly" to the previous statement
> > doesn't do it), I'm going to be uneasy about them.
>
> To me this example sounds like these
> childish debates on who like someone more.
> "I like him more than you do."
> or in this case:
> "I like one of them more than you like one of them."
>
> What's wrong with this translation?
>
>
> v4hn
>

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&quot;I like him more than you do&quot; is incorrect. Since the quantified =
variable is instantiated separately in each of the function applications, t=
he original sentence under exact quantifiers means it&#39;s more like &quot=
;It is more true that I like exactly one of them than it is true that you l=
ike exactly one of them.&quot; This re-instantiation is why the original ex=
ample is counterintuitive. I&#39;m not fully sure whether I would draw the =
same conclusion from your second translation; I think I might, though, sinc=
e &quot;one of them&quot; is introduced twice (unlike arpis&#39;s previous =
translation, which only introduces it once and hence makes it seem like the=
 referent is the same).<div>
<br></div><div>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:04 AM, v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 10:01:50AM -0500, .arpis. wrote:<=
br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; {mi zmadu do lo ni ce&#39;u nelci pa lo re pren=
u}<br>
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; The sentence says to me &quot;I, more than you=
, like one of the two people.&quot;<br>
&gt; Unless you can give me an intuition for a translation that preserves e=
xact<br>
&gt; quantifier semantics (and just adding &quot;exactly&quot; to the previ=
ous statement<br>
&gt; doesn&#39;t do it), I&#39;m going to be uneasy about them.<br>
<br>
</div>To me this example sounds like these<br>
childish debates on who like someone more.<br>
&quot;I like him more than you do.&quot;<br>
or in this case:<br>
&quot;I like one of them more than you like one of them.&quot;<br>
<br>
What&#39;s wrong with this translation?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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