Received: from mail-wg0-f57.google.com ([74.125.82.57]:40367) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TsilK-0007gY-6F; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:25 -0800 Received: by mail-wg0-f57.google.com with SMTP id fn15sf477341wgb.22 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-y-gmx-trusted :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=5YouDOWWsp3kN5n7tzvW2/ozTenFZQZL8txR95aY4KM=; b=K/K2Wszsz9UQWuRD4uYwEQaCHUzGP70ITnreVyqwzZ0HRVHoUBvv4lVkZJ8oHpKKcP 3RnwKcsi3kfCUJNCXq4LNSLVCoWvsqUydRfT9wRRy5NuKuU0av907gm6y/UBrQbaZp+/ hPrVNoJlIJc/epkHz0e3BK0/sxPCvz/ltVjeHzU+e6wvBaFhkFYbTZcc/Hc8k2Fs/wKv rPZnrscF64FIJGiSF6O1ol+4YsBVruR6eqSoD4nmmcLOC7K7zetKmdfWmwboR2lo8N8E teyC3MX7HSDZ21810QztHPayqMm7zjHZEke8+2ofWTMb5N1MLAL88NLuXfZd6KiiAB2a 6nBA== X-Received: by 10.180.107.162 with SMTP id hd2mr2535728wib.0.1357688350461; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.20.134 with SMTP id n6ls1995973wie.42.canary; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.208.198 with SMTP id q46mr82300081eeo.0.1357688349417; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.208.198 with SMTP id q46mr82300080eeo.0.1357688349409; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.15.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z44si24753840een.0.2013.01.08.15.39.09; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.15.19; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.35]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M68YO-1T4c2Y47Bq-00y86u for ; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:39:09 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jan 2013 23:39:08 -0000 Received: from p54AF4111.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [84.175.65.17] by mail.gmx.net (mp035) with SMTP; 09 Jan 2013 00:39:08 +0100 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/jka13q9HjsTkFBcHPTKPVm6EC8vU4Qy5Qv7deCy JvkEBsa+wax955 Message-ID: <50ECAE1C.1060105@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:39:08 +0100 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] searching References: <1357670696.88472.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50EC7255.7000808@gmx.de> <1357673481.26665.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1357673481.26665.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e > Always could; existence is a predicate, being there is the UD. So, {lo > pavyseljirna cu broda} always implies {da pavyseljirna } but never > (directly) {da poi pavyseljirna cu zasti}. {lo pavyseljirna cu broda} does not imply {da pavyseljirna}, but {da pavyseljirna} implies {lo pavyseljirna cu broda}. The universe of discourse is not the only thing of importance here. Let's say I'm a hunter, and it so happens that the species I'm hunting for has gone extinct earlier that day (but I don't know that). For simplicity sake, let us say that it was deer. There are no deer left. In this scenario, we can make certain claims about lo mirli, without implying anything about its existence: mi sisku lo mirli I'm looking for deer. Here, {lo mirli cu broda} but {na ku da mirli}. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.