Received: from mail-pb0-f56.google.com ([209.85.160.56]:35112) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tsj1m-0007mp-9R; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:32 -0800 Received: by mail-pb0-f56.google.com with SMTP id ro12sf729634pbb.1 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=X4/BuaxdYsVFQKrxaMvRKEX/nicgSU7x/q2yH0TkmRE=; b=EA6pzfw4aC5HUsyX11O2lMr7yq7+hFH/z74tg7NPDeI29mmmAKREiCnPSXkOxGxtAQ N1QRb0Mq7Z+iL+YMkRqhxBJn61bC1IzoS/obqj5H3OFFycG0Wsw5ZePMtkUGBRsOPeiE s6bvUWmpUiQ77FhBTx1+zypPXZsnOF//HuC3WptDd/8fPZeQlDWPxhmVIfId/KOgqajE HSI40/wNFI1UdGQjw8npCHUhh2pmr34ISCObCae3spwUQI+IYV4eXiwNU/fRxoaG5TZx SEAOF2aTR4fU0aLTbz0mhSBpHa5S39Z7eIWMgX584gP9A5vtYlgcdYkdHv2woBiyoXPp uowA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=X4/BuaxdYsVFQKrxaMvRKEX/nicgSU7x/q2yH0TkmRE=; b=ypkp/lbCd0eLnjk/ZfrFisY+h75BazAem4bfGsD0vGKmEuZK1DfqQf8J4XgPxYFrx7 Y5GC2of+N1SI4dU/SCNe0D4AQFN3XiV+coJnVrjmg1J7Z6E68NhkvXEKFzCcJzpGaI4n n4onHnRdKgRbooDL0B+M8EZhB3DObp67YwPvS6xHa2q3J93YYjbqD2uDW2/D0g+uKcFE D7vtgGsA3l4JUb3Kyc2rpdibAJkEBFMtAy1OZ0aM7Ne1QL3/XWEzIgszBmcmY/LhPZRn Pm9gwvPtooXpHflC2HQBe9TN/sHfu3O/lg2x54yd6biWGfXrJNx+VhvLeWMDFEpMRKD1 iiCw== X-Received: by 10.49.116.1 with SMTP id js1mr11914994qeb.19.1357689371737; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:11 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.2.225 with SMTP id 1ls691825qex.77.gmail; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.169.202 with SMTP id ag10mr29733283vec.39.1357689370467; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.169.202 with SMTP id ag10mr29733282vec.39.1357689370449; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h20si17284842vdg.3.2013.01.08.15.56.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.45; Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so1031535vbi.32 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.27.174 with SMTP id u14mr10332165vdg.107.1357689370303; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.13.197 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:56:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50EC7334.8040607@gmx.de> References: <50EC7334.8040607@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:56:09 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] searching From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307cfd4ca1de6204d2cfb01b X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --20cf307cfd4ca1de6204d2cfb01b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It's not that it doesn't, only that it needn't. Specifying explicitly that it doesn't isn't possible. va'i xorlo doesn't really "fix" this per se, in that under the modified "x1 looks for x2 at x3" definition, you can't explicitly say "I'm looking for a green thing, I don't care which one", at least not without introducing another bridi. mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:27 PM, selpa'i wrote: > la latro'a cu cusku di'e > > If you defined it the other way, you wouldn't get quite the same thing >> by just attaching {poi}. Instead you could wind up looking for a >> definite shirt, rather than just "some green shirt". >> > > Xorlo "lo creka" does not refer to a specific shirt, that would be "le > creka", so there is no problem with using lo here, but: > > > {da} wouldn't fix >> this either, because the quantifier would be in the wrong place. (That >> is, "I'm looking for {da poi crino}" is "There exists a green thing that >> I'm looking for"; the existential is outside the looking. >> > > Right, "da" doesn't work for these situations, that's one of the problems > xorlo fixed. > > > mu'o mi'e la selpa'i > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@** > googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/lojban?hl=en . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf307cfd4ca1de6204d2cfb01b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not that it doesn't, only that it needn't. Specifying expl= icitly that it doesn't isn't possible. va'i xorlo doesn't r= eally "fix" this per se, in that under the modified "x1 look= s for x2 at x3" definition, you can't explicitly say "I'm= looking for a green thing, I don't care which one", at least not = without introducing another bridi.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:27 PM, selpa'i &= lt;seladwa@gmx.de&g= t; wrote:
la latro'a cu cusku di'e

If you defined it the other way, you wouldn't get quite the same thing<= br> by just attaching {poi}. Instead you could wind up looking for a
definite shirt, rather than just "some green shirt".

Xorlo "lo creka" does not refer to a specific shirt, that would b= e "le creka", so there is no problem with using lo here, but:

{da} wouldn't fix
this either, because the quantifier would be in the wrong place. (That
is, "I'm looking for {da poi crino}" is "There exists a = green thing that
I'm looking for"; the existential is outside the looking.

Right, "da" doesn't work for these situations, that's one= of the problems xorlo fixed.


mu'o mi'e la selpa'i



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