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His point involves a definition of {da broda} as "there exists x in the
universe of discourse such that x broda". This does not require "There
exists x in the universe of discourse such that x broda gi'e zasti [fi
zu'i]", since we talk about things that don't exist all the time. Under
this definition, if you say {lo pavyseljirna}, there's a unicorn in the
universe of discourse, irrespective of whether it exists in reality.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
>
>> Always could; existence is a predicate, being there is the UD.  So, {lo
>>
>> pavyseljirna cu broda} always implies {da pavyseljirna } but never
>> (directly) {da poi pavyseljirna cu zasti}.
>>
>
> {lo pavyseljirna cu broda} does not imply {da pavyseljirna}, but {da
> pavyseljirna} implies {lo pavyseljirna cu broda}. The universe of discourse
> is not the only thing of importance here. Let's say I'm a hunter, and it so
> happens that the species I'm hunting for has gone extinct earlier that day
> (but I don't know that). For simplicity sake, let us say that it was deer.
> There are no deer left.
>
> In this scenario, we can make certain claims about lo mirli, without
> implying anything about its existence:
>
> mi sisku lo mirli
> I'm looking for deer.
>
> Here, {lo mirli cu broda} but {na ku da mirli}.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
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>

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His point involves a definition of {da broda} as &quot;there exists x in th=
e universe of discourse such that x broda&quot;. This does not require &quo=
t;There exists x in the universe of discourse such that x broda gi&#39;e za=
sti [fi zu&#39;i]&quot;, since we talk about things that don&#39;t exist al=
l the time. Under this definition, if you say {lo pavyseljirna}, there&#39;=
s a unicorn in the universe of discourse, irrespective of whether it exists=
 in reality.<br>
<br>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Jan 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">la .pycyn. cu cusku di&#39=
;e<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Always could; existence is a predicate, being there is the UD. =A0So, {lo<d=
iv class=3D"im"><br>
pavyseljirna cu broda} always implies {da pavyseljirna } but never<br>
(directly) {da poi pavyseljirna cu zasti}.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
{lo pavyseljirna cu broda} does not imply {da pavyseljirna}, but {da pavyse=
ljirna} implies {lo pavyseljirna cu broda}. The universe of discourse is no=
t the only thing of importance here. Let&#39;s say I&#39;m a hunter, and it=
 so happens that the species I&#39;m hunting for has gone extinct earlier t=
hat day (but I don&#39;t know that). For simplicity sake, let us say that i=
t was deer. There are no deer left.<br>

<br>
In this scenario, we can make certain claims about lo mirli, without implyi=
ng anything about its existence:<br>
<br>
mi sisku lo mirli<br>
I&#39;m looking for deer.<br>
<br>
Here, {lo mirli cu broda} but {na ku da mirli}.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div c=
lass=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i<br>
<br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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