Received: from mail-ye0-f191.google.com ([209.85.213.191]:58324)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBCD6T3EC2UIBBL4BWODQKGQEBNRAYZQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Tsjzz-0008EZ-29; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:39 -0800
Received: by mail-ye0-f191.google.com with SMTP id m5sf748874yen.28
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:24 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf
         :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        bh=tZGTA4Wnoi+Ik+ODXzmVqTAGZUGjH3KNPuuVFFc7PIQ=;
        b=aupBDm2QmE53OJzTB+MISV4dykrCgaHI0JFKSgAflcj6KMhda11u43kzw0+49mGqfy
         5pnUtxEuosh8aOGHdkPJkBSgvTabxyIKyccHSm8gDK2UwLo+dN4DoHwZ89L0qFFOcnLb
         Pau1MY0YAc+BHu8sc6b98U49W3h2QsBronMXeuAgeBmmLR1LkMz9bReRUJJI3HDkMGwF
         E54acNz4g87sVRiFPim7Qlv5oL0Qp/ncUjO4cWKo5V4t7LVDJTon2bEzo6PtI0uySUUn
         8iOzbAaA4/OebmuW8xBPMA6I2MEoTa5Jt2K/KEUFFKhUuvpX42DaMpxlyKeFYZQaYBXE
         jD5w==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf
         :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        bh=tZGTA4Wnoi+Ik+ODXzmVqTAGZUGjH3KNPuuVFFc7PIQ=;
        b=cRIzBgHUPA6u7stzVjjuuQpi8BoFsw2gKD2CJ9wDc1iFM5TDcBPPfz6LbMX6T+A5+Q
         LXl07abh7elwB0jLNI0eoSc/TEC3gxMK+/PqiCE7XZtl7sQIWGs3prbdl48TXVr/yMPq
         Kd2tsyEAPnqaiz13C1NEmTOBkEh4G/5Y8cqdVqKLYXjZ3HuP6FYXD+VksfNyEiNfCgmM
         ePb/6v4tuwVXD2JT2lJKkuRK/PZXJ6SluV3rA15HnVJUkox7++JWjPdyGJIUAZS+5ANd
         7oK4bhvcbKew5UxJMeCKCNuGgcOLnCAW8yB/863DoWfmQN4ZQ7zfEXUNGVTgdDMGIsQ3
         /7Gw==
X-Received: by 10.182.107.99 with SMTP id hb3mr1052756obb.12.1357693104447;
        Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:24 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.182.14.8 with SMTP id l8ls187965obc.79.gmail; Tue, 08 Jan 2013
 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.42.212.209 with SMTP id gt17mr49008124icb.31.1357693103292;
        Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.42.212.209 with SMTP id gt17mr49008122icb.31.1357693103281;
        Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ie0-f179.google.com (mail-ie0-f179.google.com [209.85.223.179])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s15si146466igi.1.2013.01.08.16.58.23
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.179;
Received: by mail-ie0-f179.google.com with SMTP id k14so1355054iea.38
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.43.117.197 with SMTP id fn5mr50800477icc.7.1357693103182; Tue,
 08 Jan 2013 16:58:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.231.142.134 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:58:22 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <50ECB7C1.2020501@gmx.de>
References: <CAEimHHBi1SpOunKv4yVgo4RO1=d8+T+H41UAbRHfhjrDvJ12tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOQ8VDU2vZr5LWtEB6QiaSqJvcM9hX6STTvQSOzQyGwUdmO_dQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOQ8VDUf80C0ag2aWGAqb3-sU=Jt4sjQFWK-T4L+m83n1=s=Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEimHHBP1ob0wQfaVNB2jCV3tV--QJc=0CH40dPm_4PMEq6p4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+gZtgL6G3TnWJTK6bN8LgVDUrzgA1H95gmjbZ+Fbsghq=raZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50EC7334.8040607@gmx.de>
	<CA+gZtgLRxr6fAkouma8k9248JyxZRo==stiDXGkLxzscEKk2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50ECB7C1.2020501@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:58:22 -0300
Message-ID: <CALMa68o0Krp-bFe+6CLeV=9AqJhySC29ky4_A_3HUS9CjjXpLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.179 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

I am pretty sure that {lo broda cu brode} implies {da poi broda cu brode}
(except that {da} should be a plural variable). In particular, {lo broda}
presupposes {da broda}.

When I say {mi sisku lo crino}, there is no green thing, and no green bunch
of things out of which I can create meaning for the "looking for" predicate.
You could argue that I am looking for something that is among all the green
things, {mi sisku lo ka me lo [ro] crino}, which is ok, except for the problem
with non-existent objects. If I say {mi sisku [lo ka me] lo pavyseljirna}, I am
making a commitment with the belief that da pavyseljirna. It can't be just
an imaginary unicorn, because I am not looking for a unicorn on my mind.
You can also consider contradictory properties. If you said {mi sisku lo blanu
poi na blanu}, I would reply {na'i go'i}! ({mi sisku lo ka blanu gi'e na blanu}
is fine, though).

The non-existence thing could be solved by working with sets, but it is
logically cleaner to work directly with their defining properties.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.


On 8 January 2013 21:20, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> la latro'a cu cusku di'e
>>
>> It's not that it doesn't, only that it needn't. Specifying explicitly
>>
>> that it doesn't isn't possible.
>
>
> Why not?
>
>
>> va'i xorlo doesn't really "fix" this per
>> se, in that under the modified "x1 looks for x2 at x3" definition, you
>> can't explicitly say "I'm looking for a green thing, I don't care which
>> one", at least not without introducing another bridi.
>
>
> Why? What is the problem with "mi sisku lo crino"? This is exactly the kind
> of thing xorlo fixes.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.