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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:48:04 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
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---1412092350-455300185-1357699684=:79151
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Of course it does, KFaFa =3D> SxFx=A0 and any variation of that you want to=
 use to cover the Lojban will work essentially the same.=A0 And, clearly, F=
a=3D/=3D> KFaGa, and particularly not for G =3D exists.=A0 And, of course, =
again, even if deer no longer exist they may be in the UD (and surely are i=
f I assert {mi sisku lo mirli} in the thing sense of {sisku}) and so there =
are some, just not any longer in the realm of existents.=A0 We talk about (=
have in our UD) non-existent things all the time (Sherlock Holmes, unicorns=
, caring Republicans, fiscally sound Democrats, etc.) and have no problems =
with them.




________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
=20
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> Always could; existence is a predicate, being there is the UD.=A0 So, {lo
> pavyseljirna cu broda} always implies {da pavyseljirna } but never
> (directly) {da poi pavyseljirna cu zasti}.

{lo pavyseljirna cu broda} does not imply {da pavyseljirna}, but {da pavyse=
ljirna} implies {lo pavyseljirna cu broda}. The universe of discourse is no=
t the only thing of importance here. Let's say I'm a hunter, and it so happ=
ens that the species I'm hunting for has gone extinct earlier that day (but=
 I don't know that). For simplicity sake, let us say that it was deer. Ther=
e are no deer left.

In this scenario, we can make certain claims about lo mirli, without implyi=
ng anything about its existence:

mi sisku lo mirli
I'm looking for deer.

Here, {lo mirli cu broda} but {na ku da mirli}.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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--=20
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---1412092350-455300185-1357699684=:79151
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Of course it does, KF=
aFa =3D&gt; SxFx&nbsp; and any variation of that you want to use to cover t=
he Lojban will work essentially the same.&nbsp; And, clearly, Fa=3D/=3D&gt;=
 KFaGa, and particularly not for G =3D exists.&nbsp; And, of course, again,=
 even if deer no longer exist they may be in the UD (and surely are if I as=
sert {mi sisku lo mirli} in the thing sense of {sisku}) and so there are so=
me, just not any longer in the realm of existents.&nbsp; We talk about (hav=
e in our UD) non-existent things all the time (Sherlock Holmes, unicorns, c=
aring Republicans, fiscally sound Democrats, etc.) and have no problems wit=
h them.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-=
family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div st=
yle=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12p=
t;">
 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i &lt;seladwa@gmx.de&=
gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googleg=
roups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesd=
ay, January 8, 2013 5:39 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subje=
ct:</span></b> Re: [lojban] searching<br> </font> </div> <br>
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; Always could; existence is a predicate, be=
ing there is the UD.&nbsp; So, {lo<br>&gt; pavyseljirna cu broda} always im=
plies {da pavyseljirna } but never<br>&gt; (directly) {da poi pavyseljirna =
cu zasti}.<br><br>{lo pavyseljirna cu broda} does not imply {da pavyseljirn=
a}, but {da pavyseljirna} implies {lo pavyseljirna cu broda}. The universe =
of discourse is not the only thing of importance here. Let's say I'm a hunt=
er, and it so happens that the species I'm hunting for has gone extinct ear=
lier that day (but I don't know that). For simplicity sake, let us say that=
 it was deer. There are no deer left.<br><br>In this scenario, we can make =
certain claims about lo mirli, without implying anything about its existenc=
e:<br><br>mi sisku lo mirli<br>I'm looking for deer.<br><br>Here, {lo mirli=
 cu broda} but {na ku da mirli}.<br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You =
received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "lojban" group.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=
=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com"=
>lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To unsubscribe from this group, send email=
 to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailt=
o:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For mo=
re options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3D=
en.<br><br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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