On Tue,= Jan 8, 2013 at 10:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>= wrote:

Ordinarily, the scope of a quantifi= er in an abstraction is restricted to that abstraction and moving it outsid= e is a logical no-no (as though the UD of one world were the same for all).= =A0 Now {ni} is a strange abstraction and may be have differently, but unti= l that case gets made we have to say=A0 we must take it internally.=A0=A0 S= o, we have the case that my liking for A is 3 (on a 5-point scale) and for = B is 0 (bottom), while you give both A and B 4 (top).=A0 So, in fact, I don= 't like either of them more than you do.=A0 Notice that, in this case a= t least, moving the quantifier outside doesn't change the result.=A0 I = suspect this is a problem with the example, but I don't want to fadge u= p a new one.=A0

From: Felipe Gon=E7alves A= ssis <felip= eg.assis@gmail.com>
To: lojban@= googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2= 013 5:46 PM
Subject: Re:= [lojban] Quantifier exactness

On 7 January 2013 14:55, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
> I meant = a translation of the original statement into English. .u'u that I
&g= t; wasn't clear.
>

That is the point. I have never seen in any other linguisticexpression an object
like lo ni mi nelci PA da, as far as I can tell. T= his is why, in the
attempted translation,
the normally ambiguous scop= e of the natural language quantifier is
forced to long.
I have no intuition about lo ni mi nelci PA da, although= I agree with
the axioms that
justify latro'a's reasoning.
mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at= 11:54 AM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis
> <felip= eg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 7 January 2013= 12:01, .arpis. <rpglover64+jboba= u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 7,= 2013 at 5:33 AM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis
>> > <felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What is lacking here is the argument= /for/ quantifier inexactness,
>> >> which goes against CLL.=
>> >
>> >
>> > Much as I like quantifi= er exactness as a useful idiosyncrasy in lojban
>> > (and
>> > view adhering to the CLL) as a good def= ault, I find the example given as
>> > an
>> > argu= ment /against/ quantifier exactness (though not an entirely
>> >= ; convincing
>> > one by itself), at least if I take latros's analysis at f= ace value.
>> >
>>
>> I don't see how the example is an argumen= t. It is just that, an example.
>>
>> > The sentence s= ays to me "I, more than you, like one of the two people."
>> > Unless you can give me an intuition for a translation that pr= eserves
>> > exact
>> > quantifier semantics (and j= ust adding "exactly" to the previous
>> > statement >> > doesn't do it), I'm going to be uneasy about them.>> >
>>
>> "I, more than you, like one of = the two people."
>> {da poi me lo re prenu zo'u mi zmadu = do lo ni ce'u nelci da} or
>> {mi zmadu do lo ni ce'u nelci lo [su'o/pa] me lo re prenu}=
>>
>> The odd thing with the original example is the qua= ntification within
>> the ni-clause.
>>
>> mu= 9;o
>> mi'e .asiz.
>>
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>><= br>>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>= ;
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