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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 07:39:50 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
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---334495122-2025427893-1357745990=:58397
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Oh dear, is this one going around again?=A0 {lo} is not intensional (whatev=
er that means exactly), even in xorlo (except when xorxes go off on a tange=
nt). {lo broda} refers to brodas, not brodaness or Mr. Broda or whatever, a=
nd brodas in the present UD, not in cloud-cuckooland.=A0 Existence, unmodif=
ied, refers to existence in the putative "real world", a subset of the UD f=
or logical purposes.=A0 If the extension of {broda} is null in the UD, then=
 {lo broda} is improper, although, pragmatically, using it enlarges the UD =
to include at least one broda (assuming that the expression is allowed, UDs=
 are collaborative, after all).




________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
=20
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> What if the extension of {crino} is null?=A0 Of course it can't be if {mi
> sisku lo crino} is accepted in the proposed sense, but that is
> questionbegging.

I don't think we're making claims about the extension of {crino} when sayin=
g {lo crino}. lo is an intensional article. The deer example makes this qui=
te clear, we can be looking for deer even if none exist. So there is no pro=
blem if the extension is null.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Oh dear, is this one =
going around again?&nbsp; {lo} is not intensional (whatever that means exac=
tly), even in xorlo (except when xorxes go off on a tangent). {lo broda} re=
fers to brodas, not brodaness or Mr. Broda or whatever, and brodas in the p=
resent UD, not in cloud-cuckooland.&nbsp; Existence, unmodified, refers to =
existence in the putative "real world", a subset of the UD for logical purp=
oses.&nbsp; If the extension of {broda} is null in the UD, then {lo broda} =
is improper, although, pragmatically, using it enlarges the UD to include a=
t least one broda (assuming that the expression is allowed, UDs are collabo=
rative, after all).<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div st=
yle=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12p=
t;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;
 font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr =
size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i =
&lt;seladwa@gmx.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span>=
</b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sen=
t:</span></b> Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:57 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] searching<br> </font> </di=
v> <br>
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; What if the extension of {crino} is null?&=
nbsp; Of course it can't be if {mi<br>&gt; sisku lo crino} is accepted in t=
he proposed sense, but that is<br>&gt; questionbegging.<br><br>I don't thin=
k we're making claims about the extension of {crino} when saying {lo crino}=
. lo is an intensional article. The deer example makes this quite clear, we=
 can be looking for deer even if none exist. So there is no problem if the =
extension is null.<br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You received this =
message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>=
To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegrou=
ps.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>=
.<br>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.c=
om">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For more options, visit this group
 at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br><br><br><br> </div> <=
/div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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