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From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
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Well, for indefiniteness you can (and should) use variable rather than {lo,=
 le} both of which involve saliency (external and internal), which is preci=
sely something definite, relatively speaking.




________________________________
 From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] searching
=20

Look at the "any" discussion, as it's the same idea. {lo crino} can very we=
ll have only one referent, even if there are many green things in the UD. I=
t shouldn't have only one referent, if the distinction matters to you as th=
e speaker; that's (part of?) what {le} is for.=A0But it can anyway. This me=
ans you can't say "I'm looking for a green thing" and be absolutely certain=
 that your listener knows you don't care which one (without a separate brid=
i).

mi'e la latro'a mu'o


On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:44 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 02:10:28AM -0500, Ian Johnson wrote:
>> Because {lo crino} can very well mean "that blade of grass over there".
>
>What's the problem here? If you're just looking for something green
>and your universe of discourse includes blades of grass, then this is
>perfectly valid.
>
>
>> It's not specific either way, and unlike with definiteness there isn't a
>> way to add quantifiers or anything to make it so.
>
>I don't get the rest.. If you are looking for a green shirt
>and your UD includes more things than shirts, you can always say
>{mi sisku lo crino creka}
>
>
>v4hn
>

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Well, for indefiniten=
ess you can (and should) use variable rather than {lo, le} both of which in=
volve saliency (external and internal), which is precisely something defini=
te, relatively speaking.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <d=
iv style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size=
: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <h=
r size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Ian Jo=
hnson &lt;blindbravado@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bol=
d;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:09 AM<br> <b><span=
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] searching<br=
> </font>
 </div> <br>
<div id=3D"yiv1893098702">Look at the "any" discussion, as it's the same id=
ea. {lo crino} can very well have only one referent, even if there are many=
 green things in the UD. It <i>shouldn't </i>have only one referent, if the=
 distinction matters to you as the speaker; that's (part of?) what {le} is =
for.&nbsp;But it can anyway. This means you can't say "I'm looking for a gr=
een thing" and be absolutely certain that your listener knows you don't car=
e which one (without a separate bridi).<div>

<br></div><div>mi'e la latro'a mu'o<br><br><div class=3D"yiv1893098702gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:44 AM, v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=
=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:me@v4hn.de">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"yiv1=
893098702gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex;">

<div>On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 02:10:28AM -0500, Ian Johnson wrote:<br>
&gt; Because {lo crino} can very well mean "that blade of grass over there"=
.<br>
<br>
</div>What's the problem here? If you're just looking for something green<b=
r>
and your universe of discourse includes blades of grass, then this is<br>
perfectly valid.<br>
<div><br>
&gt; It's not specific either way, and unlike with definiteness there isn't=
 a<br>
&gt; way to add quantifiers or anything to make it so.<br>
<br>
</div>I don't get the rest.. If you are looking for a green shirt<br>
and your UD includes more things than shirts, you can always say<br>
{mi sisku lo crino creka}<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>



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</div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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