2013/1/14 Sebastian Fr=F6jd <so.co...@gmail.com>

Here's a link to my project of translating latin names of plants into lojba= n. Please contribute!
Sorry for a lot of swedish comments in the documen= t. It was meant only as private notes from the beginning, but I now think i= t's better to publish it on internet like gleki did with his projects.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_nLFjv5Q= IE9YTZ5MU9pM2lpUkU/edit

mu'omi'e jongausib

2013/1/14 jongausib &l= t;so.co...@gmail.com>

If there's someday is going to be a complete= , official lojban=20 dictionary, I think there's a need for some criteria for what jbovlaste=20 should contain and in which form.

Right now the dictionary is rather= finite, but with more contributors it could expand to an extreme extent.I think it's a good idea to discuss this issue now, so I don't contribute= with a lot of valsi now, and then a few years later someone delete a lot o= f my work, because they don't fit into some future official template or lis= t of criteria.

Vocabulary
1. Should we try to add lujvo for all places of ea= ch gismu as distinct valsi, like {seldri}, {selbai}, {terni'i} etc?

= 2. What kind of cmene/cmevla should be added? (with no restriction this set= could be extremely large)

For example, we could add recommendation that you only should add cmene= that could be regarded as having a lexicographical value, like the most co= mmon names of persons, companies, geographical entities etc. Not the name o= f the street where you are living and shit like that.

3. What kind of fu'ivla should be added?

With ALL names of speci= es and chemical substances and other large sets, we are going to have a ver= y huge dictionary.
I've been trying to translate some names of species i= nto lujvo (the solution I prefer), but the latin names are often not very d= escriptive and/or logical, so I think one of the better solution (at least = for names of species etc, you use relative often) is to just lojbanize the = latin names into fu'ivla.

You'll probably already discussed this a lot, but it would be nice to h= ave some guidelines documented somewhere about standards. I believe lojban = standards about biology, chemistry, music theory and other scientific disci= plines, doesn't belong to the official grammar of lojban (as little as Oxfo= rd style manual is normative for ALL kind of English language), but still i= t would be nice to have such guidelines (on a level below the official lang= uage). Especially jbovlaste need such guidelines if we don't want to have a= n inconsistent dictionary with a dukse of words in a possible future.

4. When is it ok to add a stage-4 fui'vla in the dictionary?

I k= now some lojbanist don't like stage-3 fu'ivla. I do like stage-3. The prefi= x in the stage-3 fu'ivla help you understand a little what this foreign wor= d is about. And you could make distinctions easily between for example {spa= trvanila}, {grutrvanila} "vanilla pod", {tsijrvanila} "vanilla seed" and {x= ukmrvanila} vanillin.

The only stage-4 fu'ivla I add are those which are very cultural specif= ic, not easily constructed as a lujvo and/or which doesn't easily fit into = some cathegory. Stage-4 fu'ivla should also be useful. CLL says: "[stage-4]= are used where a fu'ivla has become so common or so important that it must= be made as short as possible."

But as long as you don't add stage-4 without cause (what's the cause of= making {konjaku} a stage-4 for example? I've never heard of this species b= efore), I think those fu'ivlas could really give a good flavor to the langu= age, even if this at the same time means that we're going to learn a lot of= inconsistent words just like learning natlangs. But stage-4 fu'ivlas could= be really cool, my favourites are {iklki} and {fi'ikca}.

Form
I think jbovlaste should have a consistent format before= publishing a printed version. Some poor fellow would therefore have to rea= d through all jbovlaste and edit it into a consistent format just before pr= inting. But if we would have guidelines from now on already, and we all add= valsi in the same way, there are going to be less work for someone in the = future.

1. Form of definition
Which format do you think should be standard?<= br>
{nerkla}:
a. n₁=3Dk₁ enters n₂= =3Dk₂ from origin k₃ via route k₄ using me= ans/vehicle k₅

b.x1=3Dn₁=3Dk₁ enters x2=3Dn₂=3Dk_=
2 from origin x3=3Dk₃ via route x4=3Dk₄ using m= eans/vehicle x5=3Dk₅

c. x1 enters x2 from origin x3 via r= oute x4 using means/vehicle x5

2. Etymology
I suggest that we don't add etymology info in the notes= , but use the "add etymology"-link in jbovlaste.

I think etymology s= hould be mandatory for cmevla and fu'ivla, so you can discuss which languag= e to borrow from.
This is a paranthetical but important question if lojban has ambition to be= as cultural neutral as possible.
So one recommendation could be that yo= u always use latin for names of species, the language most related to the s= pecific cultural phenomena/object (or a derivate of languages if many cultu= res share the same phenomena/object, or in that case maybe esperanto).

3. How much info in the notes?

And also a final question: Is it = possible for a user to edit another user's notes in jbovlaste, to add info?=

4. Experimental gismu/cmavo
I think that's BPFK job to consider = if these words ever are going to be official. How does the procedure looks = like for this?

mu'omi'e jongausib

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/5yhXyYpO5eYJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googl= egroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.