Received: from mail-ye0-f183.google.com ([209.85.213.183]:42694) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TvTSe-0002yr-J5; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:44 -0800 Received: by mail-ye0-f183.google.com with SMTP id r5sf806498yen.0 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :x-ct-class:x-ct-score:x-ct-refid:x-ct-spam:x-authority-analysis :x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QWMsFzrXLgd+zMlULSl1t2JY5qvjM0IIsmkWXLyiykw=; b=mmJqcTZHcJ8vJAg2SHHdcf16L6xvjmVNoITnl3lmpnYvqD48Qbch60dF7ZFhL9HrOL Fp8HlDaDl0zY1gspLnzjVyux3q4omGCOxOZChMQ3ROYoRwO53j5hClRb73HDkC923f0f QGVMHvwHI+dCccE6m4bIRj+HMfDgEms4+ZI3LZXhnfS67H7VKTW2UfPdtK5s0WQBJNzD 78i2DLwwWsZ/G1xJeiiTmOc6HtO+aTey/vbqYS78s9+XVug9D5m1jzWODGG/MMmx/dT9 AoL79qMl/G+LJYaa1ysmPRHiCInwNpk0t6PYejqTZ9gdjSWMGh3WdzpqbFF8ziqHPaDm jPPQ== X-Received: by 10.49.24.13 with SMTP id q13mr200751qef.33.1358344517993; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.1.109 with SMTP id 13ls846261qel.87.gmail; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.198.196 with SMTP id ep4mr852510qab.3.1358344517564; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.198.196 with SMTP id ep4mr852509qab.3.1358344517551; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from eastrmfepo201.cox.net (eastrmfepo201.cox.net. [68.230.241.216]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id fg3si2280909qcb.2.2013.01.16.05.55.17; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.216 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.216; Received: from eastrmimpo209 ([68.230.241.224]) by eastrmfepo201.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20130116135517.IABD17456.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo209> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:55:17 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([98.169.148.216]) by eastrmimpo209 with cox id odvG1k00v4gNKFm01dvHVb; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:55:17 -0500 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020207.50F6B145.0046,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=E5JPVNhl c=1 sm=1 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:17 a=YsUzL_8ObRgA:10 a=TCguNf5P3WYA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=ihsrFBjg3AkA:10 a=LMc-m0BulzqVCAwgWPkA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=KctBA7kiWQV40eD1:21 a=Jfl-H13sHhoPV1_7:21 a=oMUrf2L0cPa+6Alu0knKiQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <50F6B145.3050801@lojban.org> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:55:17 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] What is the source of gismu *definitions*? References: <50F2D56C.8040405@lojban.org> <1704f503-32c7-48cf-9b68-4c438948385d@googlegroups.com> <1358202481.2304.7.camel@thomas>

<862aa0fb-4a06-4724-93f5-a8349e301902@googlegroups.com> <50F5BD85.2020408@lojban.org> <521645ed-bd5a-40f0-bb15-6eb010ff9186@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <521645ed-bd5a-40f0-bb15-6eb010ff9186@googlegroups.com> X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.216 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la gleki wrote: > jbovlaste is fine. The main problem with e.g. computer terminology is > that there should be one style while creating those terms. Why? There are no stylistic rules for Lojban. > if e.g. "log in" is {co'a se jaspu} and "log out" {co'u pilno lo jaspu} > then there is something wrong. not necessarily. It merely means that whoever conceived the two words/expressions (which may or may not have been the same person) did not happen to conceive of their relationship in the systematic dichotomy that is implied by those two English phrases. I note that alternative English phrases "log on" and "log off" are also used, and I have no doubt that there are people who "log in" and "log off", while still others "gain access" and "log off". > jbovlaste will turn into a mess. Language semantics is messy, in this sense, so we would expect any dictionary to be a mess. > When we decide on the only style for most computer terms then ... people will ignore that style. In particular, >I< will ignore that style. One of the few things I still actively do with Lojban is to think of alternative ways to say things, not seeking the ONE TRUE WAY, but simply a different way. And there is no plan for byfy to decide stylistics, and no one else has the authority to decide anything about the language design, so "we" will not decide on "the only style". It was never intended that there be only one formally approved term for a given semantic concept. If technical people in one field or project want to pragmatically restrict themselves to a jargon subset of the language vocabulary for purposes of rigor, that is their choice, but the rest of us will not be so-limited. > we'll add themand any spreadsheet temporary lists will be removed. I have no idea how the concept "spreadsheet temporary lists" fits jbovlaste. ANYONE can add words to jbovlaste, so far as I know. And they need not follow any particular style. > Note that the wiki has plenty of pages with proposals for such terms > (not only computer terms). > Nobody developed them. ??? Pages don't just appear out of thin cyberspace. Someone had to write them. > And still nobody complained that those pages existed. I am sure that someone somewhere has complained about them. EVERYTHING gets complained about at some point. zo'o But I have no problem with them. > If there is really strong rejection of spreadsheet lists and nobody > gonna add such terms into jbovlaste (I really don't know how I don't know how to use jbovlaste either, or any other online Lojban tool. I don't think in terms of online tools, and forever procrastinate on learning to use them. (If I used a cell phone, which I don't, I likely wouldn't use apps either). But those who want to add to that particular dictionary need to learn how to do so. If they don't, then their words might not get added. > then I'll finish the list myself anyway and > present it just here in mriste.If still nobody is interested then i'll > just start using it myself without asking anyone to check the list. That is perfectly acceptable, and indeed somewhat preferable for jargon. Lists of jargon will always be specific to a particular field or application, and won't be understood/used correctly by those not involved in that field or application. But of the words are in jbovlaste, people will presume that they are usable. And they likely won't use them with the semantic precision that a jargonist would expect. Even more likely, slightly different fields might use the same jargon word with slightly different semantic intent. I suspect that the definitions of specific computer jargon has somewhat different meaning to a Javascript programmer than to someone like me who last significantly programmed in TurboPascal some 15-20 years ago (I've done a couple of short macros in Excel since then, but no real programming). lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.