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Message-ID: <50F6C1A1.8050600@lojban.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:05:05 -0500
From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] zergau
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la gleki wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:57:39 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>
>     On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>      > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones
>     <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau
>     for
>      >> "politician".
>      >
>      > Sorry. "Legislator".
>
>     I think "criminalize" is a better gloss for "zergau". For "legislator"
>     I would suggest "flafi'i" (or "xelfla"), since not all laws are about
>     crimes.
>
>
> I always wondered why {zekri} had no place for the agent who commits the
> crime.

At the time, it was pointed out that not all crimes necessarily have 
"agents" (depending on exactly what one means by "crime", of course).

The currently impending American political crisis involving the debt 
limit provides one example.  Congress has passed laws requiring the 
spending of money for particular purposes.  They also have passed a law 
saying that the government can not exceed X dollars indebtedness.  Since 
the spending required exceeds available resources, at some point the 
government will be in violation of one or both of these laws.  But there 
is no agent.  It is merely an unlawful situation - a "crime".

Organizations and individuals can come into criminal situations through 
failure to act, so they are hardly "agents" (though they may arguable be 
"criminals"), and in some cases the unlawful state may arise despite no 
one actually being responsible for that happening.

Note that in passing, I have implied multiple Lojban definitions of the 
English word "criminal".  There is an "agent of a crime", there is a 
"person responsible for the crime occurring", there is "being an 
unlawful state" or "being IN an unlawful state" (the former being an 
abstraction, while the latter is a sumti within that abstraction).  And 
then there are a variety of possibilities involving the concept of "guilt".

zergau to me would probably be someone who is agentive in a crime 
situation.  But only if the place structure is appropriately worded.

lojbab
-- 
Bob LeChevalier    lojbab@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

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