Received: from mail-vc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:54876) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Twgrb-0002d6-Fs; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:26:25 -0800 Received: by mail-vc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id p16sf2731732vcq.16 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=MtO+J0J6lRSPxF4idW3u6t49yEdwNCYgumEwV1ImP24=; b=rnSXltyDSRcnpMCRoZLAgSDDYTdnOyUiLbDpPS7H9e5a5xA/2+dS8VqIddtyzTibYq Spmy9C881/P4GAjMYeqK7/U/+ijjd63XyaFzqkfxoOMgBRP+t0hW9xMJ332PP41IXEkY 7tTifWmXXG2T4vENqH4UHxVDkuyOWp2tL0fQN0oSVoLfxWBEWoy41R91whlM4dg1aFpQ fxXCQFt54nrl7k2KWXXwecZup14UfUQZgxzlKhxCm4sxcUCh/k7gVj1f9EegS+Qb0dcq or8mUACpqXoGgRXryd6Jrmtp16RjeoGrBn5QSzsRqJQSAPn+5YoarahOPtQBry3SDsWG JwcA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=MtO+J0J6lRSPxF4idW3u6t49yEdwNCYgumEwV1ImP24=; b=uBZw99sMGT1aZnopoQZZ7KrDOJdALPCurJDz4olQLxj0ZijkFGL0sqK+cWnNZN/VEI Rc97XvNU8s3xtGi42YPrjeQEbddf6DYkbk8WdOL+kzqqpOhvwF6q/g2jN8bdvE1O0KJI 7VQrpIepMX6k5ZgS5JEKVZeInrgZKSiKGQmAhNAYGd8dE/iAAGGSOqxtyKO3425zuiaf dH295ddMuPcPYEep9uSDiokZIc9E09rOzcOrN/Xxmpr+aqEsRWJFOOu11PPlIwOHlF54 t9eK2L6MbMhj+eEmBfQvcMYAT2OOZhep9BIgkxFIlJjP3T5DhOrFA+NmPdn2s6raYeQr qDgg== X-Received: by 10.49.128.166 with SMTP id np6mr2898069qeb.31.1358634359734; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.121.97 with SMTP id lj1ls2712336qeb.39.gmail; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.84.228 with SMTP id c4mr6353742vez.8.1358634358483; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.84.228 with SMTP id c4mr6353741vez.8.1358634358443; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f53.google.com (mail-vb0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h20si2618081vdg.3.2013.01.19.14.25.58 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.53; Received: by mail-vb0-f53.google.com with SMTP id b23so47717vbz.26 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.220.153.201 with SMTP id l9mr14486128vcw.33.1358634358192; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.59.9.73 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:38 -0800 (PST) From: Luke Bergen Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:25:38 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] da and existence To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04339ce44cbb1a04d3abb6ef X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04339ce44cbb1a04d3abb6ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In another thread there were comments that led me to believe that {da} must refer to a thing that actually exists. The definition also sounds like that is the case: > > logically quantified existential pro-sumti: there exists something 1 > (usually restricted). That seems kind of strange to me. So, does {da poi na zasti} basically mean, by definition, the empty set? And does that mean that I have to be very careful when using {da} to make sure that we're talking about existent things? i.e. if I'm thinking about unicorns what does it mean for me to say {da poi mi pensi ke'a cu cinri}. I guess in that example it might be ok since my (thoughts about unicorns) do exist but... still, seems weird for {da} to require existence (if in fact I'm understanding the definition correctly). mi'e la .cribe. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d04339ce44cbb1a04d3abb6ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In another thread there were comments that led me to believe that {da} must= refer to a thing that actually exists. =A0The definition also sounds like = that is the case:
logically quantified existential pro-sumti: there exists something 1 (usual= ly restricted).

That seems kind of strange = to me. =A0So, does {da poi na zasti} basically mean, by definition, the emp= ty set?

And does that mean that I have to be very careful when = using {da} to make sure that we're talking about existent things?
=

i.e. if I'm thinking about unicorns what does it me= an for me to say {da poi mi pensi ke'a cu cinri}. =A0I guess in that ex= ample it might be ok since my (thoughts about unicorns) do exist but... sti= ll, seems weird for {da} to require existence (if in fact I'm understan= ding the definition correctly).

mi'e la .cribe.

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