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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 02:07:20 -0800 (PST)
From: la klaku <jakobnybonissen@gmail.com>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: Translating "as"
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> (1) I respect you as a friend.
>
> (2) I study my dreams as symbolic imagery.
>
> (3) We kept this day as a holiday.
>
> (4) She appeared to them as a fairy this time.
>

I don't think we need a new word - neither a BAI nor a gismu. Of course, we 
*could* just make a word anyway without much harm.
The problem is that what you're essentially doing is relating an object by 
describing it with a predicate. That's essentially how all language works, 
so no wonder it turns up so often. "I study my dreams as symbolic imagery." 
could be rendered: "I work as a field of study on my experiences as a dream 
as symbolic imagery" (of course, the sentence hiccups, because it's clumsy 
what the "as" attaches to, but you get my point).
You could say that it makes explicit that it's *this* property and not *that
* property which makes it relevant. In the few cases where it needs to be 
made explicit that it's just about relevant, I agree with Tsani that we 
need the hypothetical srana3.

In line with my suggestion of not inventing a 
one-word-every-possible-use-word, the four original sentences could be 
translated thus:

I respect you as a friend.
One possible translation is {mi do sinma mu'i lonu do mi pendo}. Of course, 
if it's used as a contrast to "I love you", then it's just a roundabout way 
of saying {do simlu loka pendo (jenai pampe'o) kei mi}

I study my dreams as symbolic imagery.
Either one could just use {ta'i}, or do as Tsani did, with te lanli

We kept this day as a holiday.
{zo'e za'o nalgundei fi mi'a}. It doesn't make sense to "keep days". You 
can keep ascribing the property of "holiday" to them, though. (Again, what 
"as" is doing is just putting a selbri to a sumti and saying it's relevant)

She appeared to them as a fairy this time.
{ko'a tolcanci fi ko'e ta'i lo nu se xadni lo crida}

In conclusion I think it would be bad to invent a general mechanism to 
ascribe selbri  in mid-bridi without specifying what it describes or how. 
If ambigiuty is important, use {do'e}.

klaku

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<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">(1) I respect you as a fri=
end.<br><br>(2) I study my dreams as symbolic imagery.<br><br>(3) We kept t=
his day as a holiday.<br><br>(4) She appeared to them as a fairy this time.=
<br></blockquote><div><br>I don't think we need a new word - neither a BAI =
nor a gismu. Of course, we <i>could</i> just make a word anyway without muc=
h harm.<br>The problem is that what you're essentially doing is relating an=
 object by describing it with a predicate. That's essentially how all langu=
age works, so no wonder it turns up so often. "I study my dreams as symboli=
c imagery." could be rendered: "I work as a field of study on my experience=
s as a dream as symbolic imagery" (of course, the sentence hiccups, because=
 it's clumsy what the "as" attaches to, but you get my point).<br>You could=
 say that it makes explicit that it's <i>this</i> property and not <i>that<=
/i> property which makes it relevant. In the few cases where it needs to be=
 made explicit that it's just about relevant, I agree with Tsani that we ne=
ed the hypothetical srana3.<br><br>In line with my suggestion of not invent=
ing a one-word-every-possible-use-word, the four original sentences could b=
e translated thus:<br><br>I respect you as a friend.<br>One possible transl=
ation is {mi do sinma mu'i lonu do mi pendo}. Of course, if it's used as a =
contrast to "I love you", then it's just a roundabout way of saying {do sim=
lu loka pendo (jenai pampe'o) kei mi}<br><br>I study my dreams as symbolic =
imagery.<br>Either one could just use {ta'i}, or do as Tsani did, with te l=
anli<br><br>We kept this day as a holiday.<br>{zo'e za'o nalgundei fi mi'a}=
. It doesn't make sense to "keep days". You can keep ascribing the property=
 of "holiday" to them, though. (Again, what "as" is doing is just putting a=
 selbri to a sumti and saying it's relevant)<br><br>She appeared to them as=
 a fairy this time.<br>{ko'a tolcanci fi ko'e ta'i lo nu se xadni lo crida}=
<br><br>In conclusion I think it would be bad to invent a general mechanism=
 to ascribe selbri&nbsp; in mid-bridi without specifying what it describes =
or how. If ambigiuty is important, use {do'e}.<br><br>klaku<br></div>

<p></p>

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