Received: from mail-qe0-f63.google.com ([209.85.128.63]:51984) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TzgwM-0001TH-45; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:47 -0800 Received: by mail-qe0-f63.google.com with SMTP id 5sf766305qea.28 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Bijou186lQzPBUC2wuePygSzTc1RDFHq8IaK9NfOnBw=; b=lfgFfjPatOzzfHgzjncNU+TaC026z3gjvM156lUEj1hw8sJklEVRw5dD/5fgzfMHC7 vCuuO+Hp4APCNTKioHjKP845wFaNv2dFQL6ZJMi0gwmh1EegRWFAqvyZ+Dpir7sWKQv7 pX8qgqHEVwu3NCvc4gNhHSVTpGipJ2aCEA18Ygx0srumpFy7uxW0TmsVkv5tSQYG1hRu /73QNoKNHVyrrNS/OG6Mny6ad8PnWzngxG/DqGgVpQk73jCjYvCF/ZrPbv0HmGdl8xyz PCSPQUfHvvkImHzuOHEGSsJaEmogOzI5SFff9xK6Bg20nS7jdzdn+UAOomNHXTBq4V/2 ky0w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Bijou186lQzPBUC2wuePygSzTc1RDFHq8IaK9NfOnBw=; b=bLd+VUMoI5eEC1uutLgsGt8ohf/SF2eSDh5VzLPyZqJQLnXG7fGK7OwLfHaWPJjkk0 +gti+C1MnyEAikz1e9aFAjbBZwRNy5I9QFYST/EBMf0Yx67Q+VGmTv4S+ZttJUHwhl23 E4jDOYjC+qPx4sJ1ToPxXlOnwwFXZAEq1ux/q2ZAWSrgbVrcAYSfWTHj4v3VUyWkiJtY XxElJGvu90WcPBSzYyKo7BeOfCzypXrxCOKhdXb/gPUkw1EK1ZFmWT9VW49msMaG28Rd fqJ22g4EljoZUcQs16L28iOAwey8ja+ehGzcFq2nf2fHYBBfCEWbKZvAudpodi4i2gMX wrfw== X-Received: by 10.50.108.137 with SMTP id hk9mr736861igb.15.1359349643021; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.152.205 with SMTP id va13ls1542940igb.31.canary; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.175.70 with SMTP id az6mr9523372icb.33.1359349642241; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.175.70 with SMTP id az6mr9523369icb.33.1359349642193; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ex5si99944igc.1.2013.01.27.21.07.21 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id ef5so2412346obb.11 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.172.229 with SMTP id bf5mr10085335oec.81.1359349641894; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.178.237 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:07:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1696426.fuu6unn560@caracal> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:07:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Aesop's "The Wolf and the Crane" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54ee86c87dcb104d45240ea X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec54ee86c87dcb104d45240ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > This should be done with {bi'u nai} instead, if the explicitness is > desired. It is somewhat of a shame that {lo bi'u nai} is as long as it is. > I disagree. {le} is the specific article, he's referring to a specific thing. This is the reason why {le} exists. > mi'e la latro'a mu'o > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > >> >> About lo/le, I have the habit of switching to {le} when I talk about a >> specific thing that might have been introduced with {lo}. >> After having said {lo labno noi ....} any time I write {le labno} I mean >> *that* wolf. If I wrote {lo labno} I might mean another wolf. >> Actually I do expect the listener to understand which one I mean, of >> course I'm not guaranteed that he/she will but, if I'm careful, I hope I >> can be understood. Otherwise it would rather useless to me. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:38:00 Remo Dentato wrote: >>> > A link would be probably useful :) >>> > >>> > http://xanrilisri.thecomicseries.com/ >>> >>> According to jbovlaste, "tunlo" does not have an x2. According to >>> jbofi'e, it >>> does. >>> >>> Normally in Lojban, unlike English, French, and I suppose also Italian, >>> one >>> does not switch from the indefinite article to the definite on second >>> reference. >>> "le" indicates that the speaker has something in mind, but not that he >>> expects >>> the listener to know what it is. >>> >>> Pierre >>> -- >>> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --bcaec54ee86c87dcb104d45240ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
This should be done with {bi'u nai} instead, if the explicitness is des= ired. It is somewhat of a shame that {lo bi'u nai} is as long as it is.=

I disagree. {le} is the specific article, he'= s referring to a specific thing. This is the reason why {le} exists.
=A0
mi'e la latro'a mu'o


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

About lo/le, I have the habit of = switching to {le} when I talk about a specific thing that might have been i= ntroduced with {lo}.
After having said {lo labno noi ....} any tim= e I write {le labno} I mean *that* wolf. If I wrote {lo labno} I might mean= another wolf.
Actually I do expect the listener to understand which one I mean, of = course I'm not guaranteed that he/she will but, if I'm careful, I h= ope I can be understood. Otherwise it would rather useless to me.



On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>= ; wrote:
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:38:00 Re= mo Dentato wrote:
> A link would be probably useful :)
>
> ht= tp://xanrilisri.thecomicseries.com/

According to jbovlaste, "tunlo" does not have an x2. Accord= ing to jbofi'e, it
does.

Normally in Lojban, unlike English, French, and I suppose also Italian, one=
does not switch from the indefinite article to the definite on second refer= ence.
"le" indicates that the speaker has something in mind, but not th= at he expects
the listener to know what it is.

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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=A0
=A0

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=A0
=A0



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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