Received: from mail-bk0-f56.google.com ([209.85.214.56]:49166) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tzp6b-0002xN-BX; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:46 -0800 Received: by mail-bk0-f56.google.com with SMTP id j5sf1254866bkw.1 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf:date:from :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=E7ixhIF96WyemrfTGFa7WgySiT34bC56OLR8ev863Vg=; b=mXhLBRPtrNoD8x54sYTdGSNT+e10n3bk1tC1Ax0x7zu4k/mzGZDLPG1aaqgCvYg3+P HT726m2jWDtNG2T+BY5jonwJaOYSuS+l9dqNrXJsAz9K5oB8sw7RKuNEavDBB2iZlDnA gVskSKtZgkEWfo5VPymDg54WjqC5U/FiW3E983eX4vstKVa2U/zd8Ohb5SXz3vaT4VkD 2Hkd9/r33DnvTbjYyK9GsioGfTyn4uLfiiaWP7zfEvhGUV6RZqDTftar9AsYQWFHEDDs G3kETatF8koOGRC/YDuuVinoHwoD9Oj3CvA1rU7A/frsXsjytzRCFN+Jf/jg5j/mdKAE 7EmQ== X-Received: by 10.180.84.3 with SMTP id u3mr614359wiy.13.1359381029643; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.99.69 with SMTP id eo5ls901268wib.16.gmail; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.221.196 with SMTP id r44mr15866480eep.1.1359381023039; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.221.196 with SMTP id r44mr15866478eep.1.1359381023026; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from dd17822.kasserver.com (dd17822.kasserver.com. [85.13.138.119]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z44si2819129een.0.2013.01.28.05.50.22 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) client-ip=85.13.138.119; Received: from samsa (brln-4dbc2e1b.pool.mediaWays.net [77.188.46.27]) by dd17822.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5ED5D86025B for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:50:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:50:22 +0100 From: v4hn To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Aesop's "The Wolf and the Crane" Message-ID: <20130128135022.GK20956@samsa.fritz.box> References: <1696426.fuu6unn560@caracal> <47fd82fb-126d-41a3-aa58-fca6ab2fdbde@googlegroups.com> <20130128102447.GH20956@samsa.fritz.box> <567c078e-13fa-45c1-b22d-c57a45eed8af@googlegroups.com> <20130128125103.GI20956@samsa.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AQNmCumFClRcGgHG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: me@v4hn.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) smtp.mail=me@v4hn.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --AQNmCumFClRcGgHG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 06:21:33AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:51 AM, v4hn wrote: > > Yes, {lo broda} _refers_ to any object that brodas, but it does not > > share the _intensional meaning_ of "any object that brodas"! > > {lo broda} refers to specific individuals /in the universe of discourse/ > > >=20 > No it doesn't. {lo} is the generic article. It cannot be specific, period. If it doesn't refer to(and maybe introduce) a specific element _in the univ= erse of discourse_(I'm not talking about the actual world) then there would be no way you could reference that same element later on. Not even by KOhA/BY. Because then, there would not _be_ anything you could refer to. period. You're welcome to explain yourself in more than one sentence and with at least one example. I still think some people should write a paper on usage and meaning of {le} and {lo}, so we would have something specific to discuss instead of listening over and over again to the same arguments until one side goes to sleep... v4hn --AQNmCumFClRcGgHG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlEGgh0ACgkQMBKLZs4+wjw0wQCeK1A67/zcQTwZK6JOHwvMzrv9 pDQAoI/cvopC6343TBpHHQgfLzuPaAYw =8Hhz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AQNmCumFClRcGgHG--