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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Aesop translation
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On Jan 28, 2013, at 17:40, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see what you mean about the scalar opposite of {krinu}.  What if I had =
said: {lo broda cu na na selki'u} -> .. is not (not justified)
> I want to render the double negation.=20
>=20
> I might also have used {lo nu mi gasnu kei na rincau}  "my doing is not l=
acking-reason".  Maybe this would have been clearer.
>=20

{rincau} doesn't really solve the problem, because it's formal definition, =
assuming jvajvo, is going to be {ka ko'a ko'e ce'ai ko'a claxu lo ka ce'u k=
rinu ko'e}, which translates into English as "x1 lacks the property of x1 j=
ustifying x2." Now, you have an elided {se}, which is permissible with the =
proviso that the lujvo without the SE be useless. {rincau} with the definit=
ion I gave *is* useful, I'd say, and you should therefore not elide the {se=
}, I think.

Now, you are allowed, when using ka and du'u abstractions in the formal def=
inition, to use {makau} instead of ce'u with the same rules for eliding SE.=
 Likewise, I think that the version with the ce'u could also be useful, and=
 it is therefore not advisable to define using makau.

Next, if you had decided on using makau, there are some ideas bouncing arou=
nd on what makau really does, and it seems like there some connection to {d=
a}. In particular:
{.i ko'a claxu lo ka ce'u broda makau} ~> {.i ko'a broda noda}

That leads me to agree with xorxes: nonselki'u is the lujvo for the job, if=
 you absolutely want to use a lujvo.=20

If you want to render the double negation without using a lujvo, you could =
use {na} twice, but I think that it'd be more interesting to play around wi=
th the quantifier:
.i lo nu mi gasnu cu se krinu naku no da

Finally, and on a different note, instead of {lo nu mi gasnu}, how about {l=
o du'u mi mokau zukte}, which translates to "[The fact that] I did what I d=
id."

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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