By the way, there are= several papers in the collected works of Richard Montague ("Formal Philoso= phy"?) that deal at least in passing with questions bout what happens in pr= opositions and other opaque contexts (beyond the basic no-nos of quantifyin= g in and interchange of identicals) and also various follow-ups (carefully = avoiding the misguided) the Frege's original papers.

From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
<= span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] = Place structure "types"

Well, it affects the claim= that Lojban keeps its logical structure "on its face" since jiggery-pokery= of this sort goes against the logical structure, which puts unicorns somew= here else (strictly, what goes on in a {du'u} clause is a sense, not a refe= rence, but that just makes matters even more complex here).
I do = agree, however, that {lo pavyseljirna} is odd in this context, being at lea= st a context off from the present one.

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
S= ent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Pla= ce structure "types"

I don't think a discussion on the intricacies of = the universe of discourse is really appropriate in the Beginner's group, es= pecially since we haven't yet come to an agreement on it in things like def= ault scope.

It's also a rather technical problem that doesn't majorly affect conver= sational Lojban.

Please move any further discussion of this to the m= ain list.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
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