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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:19:39 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure "types"
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---1412092350-2057822818-1360120779=:43575
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I can't remember the names (even as vaguely as I remember Richard's) of Han=
s Kamp's stuff, but it would be a reliable place to go.=A0 The unreliable t=
ends to be those that say that there are no opaque contexts "really" or try=
 to deal with them without using alternate worlds or senses or their equiva=
lents.=A0 So the standard stuff either sets up a belief-world which differs=
 from the starting UD at least by having a non-null extension for "unicorn"=
 or the whole thing is about the sense of "unicorn" and not about unicorns =
at all.=A0 Details of how that all works out and what the relation between =
the two approaches is vary from group to group, but the basic rules noted a=
lways apply.=A0=20

Incidentally, a {lo/su'o pavyseljirna} in a {du'u} clause would never add u=
nicorns to the starting UD (argument from the Stoics at least, if not earli=
er).




________________________________
 From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure "types"
=20
On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 04:26:27PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> By the way, there are several papers in the collected works of Richard Mo=
ntague
> ("Formal Philosophy"?) that deal at least in passing with questions bout =
what
> happens in propositions and other opaque contexts (beyond the basic no-no=
s of
> quantifying in and interchange of identicals)

"various" is not really the answer I was hoping for.
I'm partly familiar with Montague's work. "in passing" is not really good
enough here. I was more looking for something which explicitly deals with U=
Ds
(maybe in the field of Discourse Representation Theory?)

> and also various follow-ups (carefully avoiding the misguided) the Frege'=
s original papers.

With this description you've either included about the whole of formal sema=
ntics
or restricted it to "none" with the parenthesis. At least some might say th=
e latter {.u'i}


mi'e la .van. mu'o

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I can't remember the =
names (even as vaguely as I remember Richard's) of Hans Kamp's stuff, but i=
t would be a reliable place to go.&nbsp; The unreliable tends to be those t=
hat say that there are no opaque contexts "really" or try to deal with them=
 without using alternate worlds or senses or their equivalents.&nbsp; So th=
e standard stuff either sets up a belief-world which differs from the start=
ing UD at least by having a non-null extension for "unicorn" or the whole t=
hing is about the sense of "unicorn" and not about unicorns at all.&nbsp; D=
etails of how that all works out and what the relation between the two appr=
oaches is vary from group to group, but the basic rules noted always apply.=
&nbsp; <br><br>Incidentally, a {lo/su'o pavyseljirna} in a {du'u} clause wo=
uld never add unicorns to the starting UD (argument from the Stoics at
 least, if not earlier).<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <d=
iv style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size=
: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <h=
r size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> v4hn &=
lt;me@v4hn.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> =
lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</s=
pan></b> Tuesday, February 5, 2013 7:04 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weigh=
t: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Place str=
ucture "types"<br> </font> </div> <br>
On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 04:26:27PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:<br>&gt; By=
 the way, there are several papers in the collected works of Richard Montag=
ue<br>&gt; ("Formal Philosophy"?) that deal at least in passing with questi=
ons bout what<br>&gt; happens in propositions and other opaque contexts (be=
yond the basic no-nos of<br>&gt; quantifying in and interchange of identica=
ls)<br><br>"various" is not really the answer I was hoping for.<br>I'm part=
ly familiar with Montague's work. "in passing" is not really good<br>enough=
 here. I was more looking for something which explicitly deals with UDs<br>=
(maybe in the field of Discourse Representation Theory?)<br><br>&gt; and al=
so various follow-ups (carefully avoiding the misguided) the Frege's origin=
al papers.<br><br>With this description you've either included about the wh=
ole of formal semantics<br>or restricted it to "none" with the parenthesis.=
 At least some might say the latter {.u'i}<br><br><br>mi'e la .van.
 mu'o<br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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