= On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:15 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail= .com> wrote:

On Tuesday, Februa= ry 5, 2013 8:15:10 PM UTC+4, Latro wrote:
{djuno} bothers me, because there's two different useful things it shou= ld mean. There's a djuno-ka definition, where the speaker knows the du&= #39;u that is created by applying djuno2 to djuno3, and there's a djuno= -du'u definition, where the speaker knows djuno2, which pertains to dju= no3 in some way. The former is in some sense "incomplete"; {lo se= djuno} is not a complete bridi syntactically but is not a "fact"= semantically either. The latter is redundant, and could just as easily be = done with srana. (That is, {mi djuno lo du'u broda noi srana ko'a} = =3D=3D {mi djuno lo du'u broda kei ko'a} and {mi djuno lo srana be = ko'a} =3D=3D {mi djuno fi ko'a}).

That said, simply disregarding djuno3 and leaving djuno2 lets you use j= ai hackery to obtain the ka version and srana hackery to obtain the gimste = version. Of course all of this is just tinkering that won't be implemen= ted anyways.

Could you please provide real exampl= es of =A0djuno with {ka}-meaning and djuno with {srana} meaning.
=
Another question. What about morji, jimpe? Do they also show= the same dualism?

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <<= a>jjlla...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 a= t 12:46 PM, Jacob Errington <nict...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> {djuno2} is actually a ka, but we pretend that it isn't because th= e gimste
> made its definition clumsy to use that way. Indeed, the djuno2 is a pr= operty
> of the djuno3.

We could say that "djuno" is a sumti raising predicate, in = the
linguistic sense of "raising"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_(linguistics) since i= ts x3 is the
semantic argument of an embedded predicate. The same can be said of
almost all predicates that take a ka-argument. (There are a couple of
oddball predicates that the gi'uste says should take ka but are not in<= br> this category.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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