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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:26:19 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] strange behaviour of {cortu}
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
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 Content preview:  What is exactly the problem with {mi cortu lo bekpi}? On 8
    February 2013 04:21, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On
    Friday, February 8, 2013 10:48:26 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >> On
   Thursday, February 07, 2013 21:18:13 la gleki wrote: >> > Many are speaking
    these days about internal place structure of brivla >> > (relations between
    djuno2 and djuno3 is one example) which has been >> > probably inspired by
    gua\spi. >> > >> > I just found another example, a little more interesting.
    >> > >> > {cortu} x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2. >> > >> > What this
    brivla should really look like is >> > {ko'a cortu lo broda be vo'a} >> >
    e.g. >> > {mi cortu lo stedu be mi} >> > {mi cortu lo tuple be mi} >> > >>
    > But if we remove one of {mi} in any example this won't lead to any >> >
    ambiguity. Indeed, where can i feel pain if not in some part of me? >> >
   Of course such technologies as described in Avatar film might raise this >>
    > question again but even then the avatar controlled by you would be a >>
    > part >> > of your double body. >> >> This is called a twiddler, as "mi
   cortu lo birka be do" is nonsensical in >> the >> same way that "I twiddle
    your thumbs" is. Similarly: >> .i mi darxi do lo birka be fo'a lo trixe be
    ko'a >> .i mi sanli lo loldi lo jamfu be do >> See http://kith.org/logos/words/lower/t.html
    . > > > Thanks for the link. The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate
    the > following sentence from Tatoeba. > > "My back hurts." > > If we assume
    that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it) > then we have three
    options. > > 1. mi cortu lo bekpi > 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi > 3. mi cortu
    lo bekpi be mi > > The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect
    relations > between sumti in a nice way. > I guess Lojban is just unable
   to express this in a more concise way. > May be > 4. bekpi je selcortu mi
   ? > > I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't. >
   > >> >> Pierre >> -- >> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black
    when I'm in Wales. >> > -- > You received this message because you are [...]
    
 
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What is exactly the problem with {mi cortu lo bekpi}?

On 8 February 2013 04:21, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, February 8, 2013 10:48:26 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, February 07, 2013 21:18:13 la gleki wrote:
>> > Many are speaking these days about internal place structure of brivla
>> > (relations between djuno2 and djuno3 is one example) which has been
>> > probably inspired by gua\spi.
>> >
>> > I just found another example, a little more interesting.
>> >
>> > {cortu} x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2.
>> >
>> > What this brivla should really look like is
>> > {ko'a cortu lo broda be vo'a}
>> > e.g.
>> > {mi cortu lo stedu be mi}
>> > {mi cortu lo tuple be mi}
>> >
>> > But if we remove one of {mi} in any example this won't lead to any
>> > ambiguity. Indeed, where can i feel pain if not in some part of me?
>> > Of course such technologies as described in Avatar film might raise this
>> > question again but even then the avatar controlled by you would be a
>> > part
>> > of your double body.
>>
>> This is called a twiddler, as "mi cortu lo birka be do" is nonsensical in
>> the
>> same way that "I twiddle your thumbs" is. Similarly:
>> .i mi darxi do lo birka be fo'a lo trixe be ko'a
>> .i mi sanli lo loldi lo jamfu be do
>> See http://kith.org/logos/words/lower/t.html .
>
>
> Thanks for the link. The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate the
> following sentence from Tatoeba.
>
> "My back hurts."
>
> If we assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)
> then we have three options.
>
> 1. mi cortu lo bekpi
> 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi
> 3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi
>
> The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect relations
> between sumti in a nice way.
> I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.
> May be
> 4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?
>
> I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't.
>
>
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>


On 8 February 2013 04:21, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, February 8, 2013 10:48:26 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, February 07, 2013 21:18:13 la gleki wrote:
>> > Many are speaking these days about internal place structure of brivla
>> > (relations between djuno2 and djuno3 is one example) which has been
>> > probably inspired by gua\spi.
>> >
>> > I just found another example, a little more interesting.
>> >
>> > {cortu} x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2.
>> >
>> > What this brivla should really look like is
>> > {ko'a cortu lo broda be vo'a}
>> > e.g.
>> > {mi cortu lo stedu be mi}
>> > {mi cortu lo tuple be mi}
>> >
>> > But if we remove one of {mi} in any example this won't lead to any
>> > ambiguity. Indeed, where can i feel pain if not in some part of me?
>> > Of course such technologies as described in Avatar film might raise this
>> > question again but even then the avatar controlled by you would be a
>> > part
>> > of your double body.
>>
>> This is called a twiddler, as "mi cortu lo birka be do" is nonsensical in
>> the
>> same way that "I twiddle your thumbs" is. Similarly:
>> .i mi darxi do lo birka be fo'a lo trixe be ko'a
>> .i mi sanli lo loldi lo jamfu be do
>> See http://kith.org/logos/words/lower/t.html .
>
>
> Thanks for the link. The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate the
> following sentence from Tatoeba.
>
> "My back hurts."
>
> If we assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)
> then we have three options.
>
> 1. mi cortu lo bekpi
> 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi
> 3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi
>
> The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect relations
> between sumti in a nice way.
> I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.
> May be
> 4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?
>
> I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't.
>
>
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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