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Subject: Re: [lojban] strange behaviour of {cortu}
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On 8 February 2013 02:21, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate the following sentence
> from Tatoeba.
>
> "My back hurts."
>
> If we assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)
> then we have three options.
>
> 1. mi cortu lo bekpi
> 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi
> 3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi
>
> The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect relations
> between sumti in a nice way.
> I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.
> May be
> 4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?
>
> I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't.
>
>
I created a semi-serious solution to this problem when it first occurred to
me too. I propose using a property + an indirect question as a verbose
albeit consistent system: {.i mi cortu lo ka [makau] bekpi [ce'u]}.
My rationale for disapproving of concrete sumti in this case is the same as
my rationale for disapproving of events in kakne2: you should be able to
use any concrete sumti (or event in the case of kakne2) but you can't
because bullshit. (Indeed {mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise} is nonsense.)
This extends to any case where you have a concrete sumti with the
restriction that it is intrinsically tied to another sumti.
e.g. {mi bajra fi lo ka makau jubme ce'u}
Naturally, we can use tanru (and jvajvo!) to make these formulas shorter.
{mi bekpi cortu}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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On 8 February 2013 02:21, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

<div class=3D"im"><div><br></div></div><div>The &quot;problem&quot; appeare=
d when i tried to translate the following sentence from Tatoeba.=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>&quot;My back hurts.&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>If we=
 assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)</div>

<div>then we have three options.</div><div><br></div><div>1. mi cortu lo be=
kpi</div><div>2. cortu lo bekpi be mi</div><div>3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi<=
/div><div><br></div><div>The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn&=
#39;t reflect relations between sumti in a nice way.</div>

<div>I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.</=
div><div>May be</div><div>4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can&#39;t.=
</div>

<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div><br></div></div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>I created a semi-serious solution to this problem =
when it first occurred to me too. I propose using a property + an indirect =
question as a verbose albeit consistent system: {.i mi cortu lo ka [makau] =
bekpi [ce&#39;u]}.</div>

<div>My rationale for disapproving of concrete sumti in this case is the sa=
me as my rationale for disapproving of events in kakne2: you should be able=
 to use any concrete sumti (or event in the case of kakne2) but you can&#39=
;t because bullshit. (Indeed {mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise} is nonsense=
.)</div>

<div>This extends to any case where you have a concrete sumti with the rest=
riction that it is intrinsically tied to another sumti.</div><div>e.g. {mi =
bajra fi lo ka makau jubme ce&#39;u}</div><div>Naturally, we can use tanru =
(and jvajvo!) to make these formulas shorter. {mi bekpi cortu}.</div>

<div><br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div></div>

<p></p>

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