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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:55:06 -0800 (PST)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The Lojban Reference Grammar in Russian language
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On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:17:41 AM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:
>
> la gleki wrote:=20
> > "This is-a-house of me" will sound extremely strange in Russian so "=CD=
=CF=CA"=20
> > is retained. But this stylistically awkward "=FC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =CD=C5=
=CE=D1" (This=20
> > is-a-house of-me) is put into the the answer (which is greyed).=20
> >=20
> >     (I can't give the literal Russian equivalent because I don't know=
=20
> >     how to make a verb out of the noun "=C4=CF=CD".)=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Me neither.=20
>
> I don't either, and my Russian is even rustier than my Lojban (and I was=
=20
> never better than "semi-fluent in 6-year-old Russian" when I could talk=
=20
> clumsily to my newly adopted kids 20 years ago), but I seem to recall=20
> that there is an adjective form for most nouns, and IIRC you can turn an=
=20
> adjective into a verb in a couple of ways.=20
>
> Also, while zdani is translated into English easiest as a noun or=20
> perhaps a verb, but there is an adjective version as well (though very=20
> hard to render in English).  This is a housish thing of mine, perhaps.=20
> Or perhaps the gerund version (which may have a Russian equivalent) This=
=20
> is housing for me.=20
>

If you wanna get such translations then i can give them to you. However,=20
russian is obviously not as flexible as lojban. Of course, mutilating rigid=
=20
natlangs in order to show something from lojban grammar is possible (see an=
=20
example with "a dog all over the road" in Wave lessons showing amazing=20
effects of {tu'o}).
But i wouldn't recommend it without further explanations.

In fact {zdani mi}~=3D"a-house-of me". But in Russian i can't apply=20
"pronoun+genitive case" that corresponds to English <'of'+pronoun>.

However, one can choose "noun+genitive" and this will be grammatically=20
correct in Russian.
So we could change the example from {ti zdani mi} to {ti zdani lo=20
gerku}=3D"this is-a-house+of a-dog"=3D"=DC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =D3=CF=C2=C1=CB=
=C9-GENITIVE".


> lojbab=20
>
>
>
> --=20
> Bob LeChevalier    loj...@lojban.org <javascript:>    www.lojban.org=20
> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.=20
>
>
>

--=20
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<br><br>On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:17:41 AM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">la gleki wrote:
<br>&gt; "This is-a-house of me" will sound extremely strange in Russian so=
 "=CD=CF=CA"
<br>&gt; is retained. But this stylistically awkward "=FC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =
=CD=C5=CE=D1" (This
<br>&gt; is-a-house of-me) is put into the the answer (which is greyed).
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; (I can't give the literal Russian equivalent because=
 I don't know
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; how to make a verb out of the noun "=C4=CF=CD".)
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; Me neither.
<br>
<br>I don't either, and my Russian is even rustier than my Lojban (and I wa=
s=20
<br>never better than "semi-fluent in 6-year-old Russian" when I could talk=
=20
<br>clumsily to my newly adopted kids 20 years ago), but I seem to recall=
=20
<br>that there is an adjective form for most nouns, and IIRC you can turn a=
n=20
<br>adjective into a verb in a couple of ways.
<br>
<br>Also, while zdani is translated into English easiest as a noun or=20
<br>perhaps a verb, but there is an adjective version as well (though very=
=20
<br>hard to render in English). &nbsp;This is a housish thing of mine, perh=
aps.=20
<br>Or perhaps the gerund version (which may have a Russian equivalent) Thi=
s=20
<br>is housing for me.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If you wanna get such translations the=
n i can give them to you. However, russian is obviously not as flexible as =
lojban. Of course, mutilating rigid natlangs in order to show something fro=
m lojban grammar is possible (see an example with "a dog all over the road"=
 in Wave lessons showing amazing effects of {tu'o}).</div><div>But i wouldn=
't recommend it without further explanations.</div><div><br></div><div>In f=
act {zdani mi}~=3D"a-house-of me". But in Russian i can't apply "pronoun+ge=
nitive case" that corresponds to English &lt;'of'+pronoun&gt;.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>However, one can choose "noun+genitive" and this will be gramm=
atically correct in Russian.</div><div>So we could change the example from =
{ti zdani mi} to {ti zdani lo gerku}=3D"this is-a-house+of a-dog"=3D"=DC=D4=
=CF =C4=CF=CD =D3=CF=C2=C1=CB=C9-GENITIVE".</div><div><br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>lojbab
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Bob LeChevalier &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" =
gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"jtlLNE3Js-cJ">loj...@lojban.org</a> &nbsp; &nbsp;<=
a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">www.lojban.org</a>
<br>President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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