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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:15:05 -0800 (PST)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The Lojban Reference Grammar in Russian language
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On Monday, February 11, 2013 8:05:40 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascr=
ipt:>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:17:41 AM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:
>>>
>>> la gleki wrote:=20
>>> > "This is-a-house of me" will sound extremely strange in Russian so=20
>>> "=CD=CF=CA"=20
>>> > is retained. But this stylistically awkward "=FC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =CD=
=C5=CE=D1" (This=20
>>> > is-a-house of-me) is put into the the answer (which is greyed).=20
>>> >=20
>>> >     (I can't give the literal Russian equivalent because I don't know=
=20
>>> >     how to make a verb out of the noun "=C4=CF=CD".)=20
>>> >=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Me neither.=20
>>>
>>> I don't either, and my Russian is even rustier than my Lojban (and I wa=
s=20
>>> never better than "semi-fluent in 6-year-old Russian" when I could talk=
=20
>>> clumsily to my newly adopted kids 20 years ago), but I seem to recall=
=20
>>> that there is an adjective form for most nouns, and IIRC you can turn a=
n=20
>>> adjective into a verb in a couple of ways.=20
>>>
>>> Also, while zdani is translated into English easiest as a noun or=20
>>> perhaps a verb, but there is an adjective version as well (though very=
=20
>>> hard to render in English).  This is a housish thing of mine, perhaps.=
=20
>>> Or perhaps the gerund version (which may have a Russian equivalent) Thi=
s=20
>>> is housing for me.=20
>>>
>>
>> If you wanna get such translations then i can give them to you. However,=
=20
>> russian is obviously not as flexible as lojban. Of course, mutilating ri=
gid=20
>> natlangs in order to show something from lojban grammar is possible (see=
 an=20
>> example with "a dog all over the road" in Wave lessons showing amazing=
=20
>> effects of {tu'o}).
>> But i wouldn't recommend it without further explanations.
>>
>> In fact {zdani mi}~=3D"a-house-of me". But in Russian i can't apply=20
>> "pronoun+genitive case" that corresponds to English <'of'+pronoun>.
>>
>> However, one can choose "noun+genitive" and this will be grammatically=
=20
>> correct in Russian.
>> So we could change the example from {ti zdani mi} to {ti zdani lo=20
>> gerku}=3D"this is-a-house+of a-dog"=3D"=DC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =D3=CF=C2=C1=
=CB=C9-GENITIVE".
>>
>> This suffers from the same problem as the original did, namely, that it=
=20
> doesn't show the verbness of "zdani". In this thread, we've beaten it to=
=20
> death (made it abundantly clear a'o), so the issue should be clear. And t=
he=20
> text has been fixed already.=20
>


Please inform of any other issues with the translation if you find them.
=20

>
> stevo
>
>>
>>> lojbab=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --=20
>>> Bob LeChevalier    loj...@lojban.org    www.lojban.org=20
>>> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.=20
>>>
>>>
>>>  --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "lojban" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com<javascript:=
>
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> =20
>> =20
>>
>
>

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<br><br>On Monday, February 11, 2013 8:05:40 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ja=
vascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"maWlHjEpcYwJ">gleki.i=
s...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div><br><br>On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:17:41 AM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:<b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">la gleki wrote:
<br>&gt; "This is-a-house of me" will sound extremely strange in Russian so=
 "=CD=CF=CA"
<br>&gt; is retained. But this stylistically awkward "=FC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =
=CD=C5=CE=D1" (This
<br>&gt; is-a-house of-me) is put into the the answer (which is greyed).
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; (I can't give the literal Russian equivalent because=
 I don't know
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; how to make a verb out of the noun "=C4=CF=CD".)
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; Me neither.
<br>
<br>I don't either, and my Russian is even rustier than my Lojban (and I wa=
s=20
<br>never better than "semi-fluent in 6-year-old Russian" when I could talk=
=20
<br>clumsily to my newly adopted kids 20 years ago), but I seem to recall=
=20
<br>that there is an adjective form for most nouns, and IIRC you can turn a=
n=20
<br>adjective into a verb in a couple of ways.
<br>
<br>Also, while zdani is translated into English easiest as a noun or=20
<br>perhaps a verb, but there is an adjective version as well (though very=
=20
<br>hard to render in English). &nbsp;This is a housish thing of mine, perh=
aps.=20
<br>Or perhaps the gerund version (which may have a Russian equivalent) Thi=
s=20
<br>is housing for me.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>If you wanna get such translatio=
ns then i can give them to you. However, russian is obviously not as flexib=
le as lojban. Of course, mutilating rigid natlangs in order to show somethi=
ng from lojban grammar is possible (see an example with "a dog all over the=
 road" in Wave lessons showing amazing effects of {tu'o}).</div>

<div>But i wouldn't recommend it without further explanations.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>In fact {zdani mi}~=3D"a-house-of me". But in Russian i can't =
apply "pronoun+genitive case" that corresponds to English &lt;'of'+pronoun&=
gt;.</div>

<div><br></div><div>However, one can choose "noun+genitive" and this will b=
e grammatically correct in Russian.</div><div>So we could change the exampl=
e from {ti zdani mi} to {ti zdani lo gerku}=3D"this is-a-house+of a-dog"=3D=
"=DC=D4=CF =C4=CF=CD =D3=CF=C2=C1=CB=C9-GENITIVE".</div>

<div><br></div></blockquote><div>This suffers from the same problem as the =
original did, namely, that it doesn't show the verbness of "zdani". In this=
 thread, we've beaten it to death (made it abundantly clear a'o), so the is=
sue should be clear. And the text has been fixed already.&nbsp;</div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Please inform of any other =
issues with the translation if you find them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>stevo</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<br>lojbab
<br>
<br>
<br><span><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>--=20
<br>Bob LeChevalier &nbsp; &nbsp;<a>loj...@lojban.org</a> &nbsp; &nbsp;<a h=
ref=3D"http://www.lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">www.lojban.org</a>
<br></font></span><div>President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, I=
nc.
<br>
<br>
<br></div></blockquote><div><div>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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