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Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla gerna
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--20cf307f3acaf9497804d57b39b0
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{na'e}, at least in my understanding of it, requires a scale. This is
frequently nonsensical, including in this situation. {na'ei} is the
contradictory negation NAhE.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

>    Why do you have to resort to experimental cmavo?  na'e works just fine
> there.   Another possibility was "...lob. go'i vy na.enai cy" (or
> equivalently, "...lob. go'i genai vy ginai cy", both equivalent to the
> English  "neither V nor C")
>     --gejyspa
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:38 AM, iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>>   .i zoi .lob. srpmla'u .lob. na go'i fo vy. .e cy.
>>>
>> While I know what you meant, this doesn't say what you meant in either of
>> the two common variations of {na}. CLL-na moves naku to the front;
>> "standard idiom"-na amounts to a naku in the same place. In either case the
>> negation scopes over the {.e}, which inverts it, resulting in "It's not
>> true that ... for both V and C", i.e. "It's false that ...for at least one
>> of V or C". You wanted either {.a} instead of {.e}, terminal {naku}, or (if
>> you're into experimental cmavo) {na'ei} in the same place as your {na}.
>>
>> .i mi xenru lo nu lo se cusku na srana lo se casnu .i mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>>
>> --
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--20cf307f3acaf9497804d57b39b0
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{na&#39;e}, at least in my understanding of it, requires a scale. This is f=
requently nonsensical, including in this situation. {na&#39;ei} is the cont=
radictory negation NAhE.<div><br></div><div>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;=
o<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Michael Tu=
rniansky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=A0 =A0Why do you have to resort to experimental cmavo? =
=A0na&#39;e works just fine there. =A0 Another possibility was &quot;...lob=
. go&#39;i vy na.enai cy&quot; (or equivalently, &quot;...lob. go&#39;i gen=
ai vy ginai cy&quot;, both equivalent to the English =A0&quot;neither V nor=
 C&quot;)<div>

=A0 =A0 --gejyspa</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div cl=
ass=3D"h5">On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:38 AM, iesk <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pa.fae@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">pa.fae@gmx.de</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=A0 .i zoi .lob. srpmla&#39;u .lob. na go&#39;i fo vy. .e cy.<br></blockquo=
te></div><div>While I know what you meant, this doesn&#39;t say what you me=
ant in either of the two common variations of {na}. CLL-na moves naku to th=
e front; &quot;standard idiom&quot;-na amounts to a naku in the same place.=
 In either case the negation scopes over the {.e}, which inverts it, result=
ing in &quot;It&#39;s not true that ... for both V and C&quot;, i.e. &quot;=
It&#39;s false that ...for at least one of V or C&quot;. You wanted either =
{.a} instead of {.e}, terminal {naku}, or (if you&#39;re into experimental =
cmavo) {na&#39;ei} in the same place as your {na}.<br>


<br>.i mi xenru lo nu lo se cusku na srana lo se casnu .i mi&#39;e la latro=
&#39;a mu&#39;o<br></div></div></div></div><div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><div class=3D"im">

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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