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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:55:11 +0100
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: [lojban] srana zo za'o
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Hey everyone,

because most of my recent contributions to the list
where about UDs and le/lo, I want to talk about
different things for a change. Though this is rather
a detail, I stumbled across it multiple times:

What's up with {za'o}?
It is defined as "continuing too long after natural end of ...".
Maybe I just misunderstand that definition, however,
many things {ba'e} don't have a natural end and people seem
to use it more as "continuing past some salient point in time"
(probably often "now") or simply "continuing".

Some examples I found:

In {le cmalu noltru}:
.i lo cuntu cu srana lo du'u mi za'o jmive gi'ikau mrobi'o

In {lo selfri be la .alis. bei bu'u la selmacygu'e}:
.i ku'i ry [to le ractu toi] ca na za'o se viska

In {la snime blabi}
.i se ri'a bo ny [to le noltruni'u toi] na za'o surla kakne ca ga lo donri gi lo nicte

How can I go on living past the natural end of me living? I suppose it's
"continue to live" in the little prince (and the original supports me here {.ui})

The other two examples translate as "does not continue" for me and I consider this
something rather different from "does not continue past the natural end".

The CLL on the other hand gives this one example for {za'o}:

{le ctuca pu za'o ciksi le cmaci seldanfu le tadgri}
The teacher kept on explaining the mathematics problem to the class too long.

The "too long" probably refers to the idea that the "natural ending point"
is already exceeded. I don't see this kind of translation in the cases I cited.

It seems to me the restriction "after natural end" is superfluous in the definition
of {za'o} and ignored in practice.

Also, how {ba'e} would one utter "She continues sleeping" without {za'o}?
{.i ko'a to'e de'a sipna}? Without the "natural end" I would just say
{.i ko'a za'o sipna}, which would mean {.i ko'a sipna za'o lo cabnu},
as described in the byfy section on {za'o}. But even then, I don't see
any reason to call "now" a "natural end" of her sleeping.

Any opinions?


v4hn

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