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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:55:53 +0100
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] srana zo za'o
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On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 07:19:57PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> Ah, the superfective (a studpid thing, but mine own), going on
> with the activities of a process after the perfection of a process:
> keeping on running after having run the mile, keeping on sleeping
> after the alarm (which should mark the end of your "sleep until
> the alarm rings"), living past your three score years and ten
> (or your heirs' need the money).=C2=A0 And so on.

> The only two problems with the definition as you read it are
> 1) the end is natural only in context: running a mile is the end
> of running a mile, running after that is keeping on running=C2=A0 -- which
> wouldn't be superfective if you were running two miles or a marathon,

How would you utter "ko'a keeps on running after reaching one mile"
in your two miles example?

Also how would you translate the {na za'o surla kakne} sentence in snow whi=
te
without za'o? ("could not continue to relax")

> and 2) what you keep on doing is not exactly what you were doing:
> before the end of the mile, you were running the mile, after that
> you are just running, not running the mile (unless you a now running
> another mile, in which case someone might say you are keeping on running
> miles).=C2=A0 So it is past some salient point (though just "now" won't d=
o)

This seems to be the case in the snow white sentence and probably also
for the little prince.

> defined by what you were doing before you began keeping one.
> The salient point is an explicit or implicit limit on the first process,
> after which the activity continues (note that the process/activity
> distinction is not very sharp here).=C2=A0 He turned seventy but he keeps=
 on
> running marathons -- he has done it for a while before seventy but seventy
> is surely an age to give that stuff up, still ... . In all the cases give=
n,
> it seems the relevant point is more implicit than might be ideal,
> however, the {za'o} tells you to look for them and understand more
> of the story because of that.

I just think this ending point is something that wasn't there before the
translation and I wonder how to translate these sentences without
introducing this point.


v4hn

> ________________________________
>  From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 6:55 PM
> Subject: [lojban] srana zo za'o
> =20
> [...]
>=20
> Some examples I found:
>=20
> In {le cmalu noltru}:
> .i lo cuntu cu srana lo du'u mi za'o jmive gi'ikau mrobi'o
>=20
> In {lo selfri be la .alis. bei bu'u la selmacygu'e}:
> .i ku'i ry [to le ractu toi] ca na za'o se viska
>=20
> In {la snime blabi}
> .i se ri'a bo ny [to le noltruni'u toi] na za'o surla kakne ca ga lo donr=
i gi lo nicte

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