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On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> because most of my recent contributions to the list
> where about UDs and le/lo, I want to talk about
> different things for a change. Though this is rather
> a detail, I stumbled across it multiple times:
>
> What's up with {za'o}?
> It is defined as "continuing too long after natural end of ...".
> Maybe I just misunderstand that definition, however,
> many things {ba'e} don't have a natural end and people seem
> to use it more as "continuing past some salient point in time"
> (probably often "now") or simply "continuing".
>
> Some examples I found:
>
> In {le cmalu noltru}:
> .i lo cuntu cu srana lo du'u mi za'o jmive gi'ikau mrobi'o
>
> In {lo selfri be la .alis. bei bu'u la selmacygu'e}:
> .i ku'i ry [to le ractu toi] ca na za'o se viska
>
> In {la snime blabi}
> .i se ri'a bo ny [to le noltruni'u toi] na za'o surla kakne ca ga lo donri
> gi lo nicte
>
> How can I go on living past the natural end of me living? I suppose it's
> "continue to live" in the little prince (and the original supports me here
> {.ui})
>
> The other two examples translate as "does not continue" for me and I
> consider this
> something rather different from "does not continue past the natural end".
>
> The CLL on the other hand gives this one example for {za'o}:
>
> {le ctuca pu za'o ciksi le cmaci seldanfu le tadgri}
> The teacher kept on explaining the mathematics problem to the class too
> long.
>
> The "too long" probably refers to the idea that the "natural ending point"
> is already exceeded. I don't see this kind of translation in the cases I
> cited.
>
> It seems to me the restriction "after natural end" is superfluous in the
> definition
> of {za'o} and ignored in practice.
>
> Also, how {ba'e} would one utter "She continues sleeping" without {za'o}?
> {.i ko'a to'e de'a sipna}? Without the "natural end" I would just say
> {.i ko'a za'o sipna}, which would mean {.i ko'a sipna za'o lo cabnu},
> as described in the byfy section on {za'o}. But even then, I don't see
> any reason to call "now" a "natural end" of her sleeping.
>

If someone sleeps past the natural end (an indefinite point, to be sure),
you start getting concerned and wondering when he'll way up. What's wrong
that he's been asleep for so long?
Just one example.

stevo

>
> Any opinions?
>
>
> v4hn
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, v4hn <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">me@v4hn=
.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Hey everyone,<br>
<br>
because most of my recent contributions to the list<br>
where about UDs and le/lo, I want to talk about<br>
different things for a change. Though this is rather<br>
a detail, I stumbled across it multiple times:<br>
<br>
What&#39;s up with {za&#39;o}?<br>
It is defined as &quot;continuing too long after natural end of ...&quot;.<=
br>
Maybe I just misunderstand that definition, however,<br>
many things {ba&#39;e} don&#39;t have a natural end and people seem<br>
to use it more as &quot;continuing past some salient point in time&quot;<br=
>
(probably often &quot;now&quot;) or simply &quot;continuing&quot;.<br>
<br>
Some examples I found:<br>
<br>
In {le cmalu noltru}:<br>
.i lo cuntu cu srana lo du&#39;u mi za&#39;o jmive gi&#39;ikau mrobi&#39;o<=
br>
<br>
In {lo selfri be la .alis. bei bu&#39;u la selmacygu&#39;e}:<br>
.i ku&#39;i ry [to le ractu toi] ca na za&#39;o se viska<br>
<br>
In {la snime blabi}<br>
.i se ri&#39;a bo ny [to le noltruni&#39;u toi] na za&#39;o surla kakne ca =
ga lo donri gi lo nicte<br>
<br>
How can I go on living past the natural end of me living? I suppose it&#39;=
s<br>
&quot;continue to live&quot; in the little prince (and the original support=
s me here {.ui})<br>
<br>
The other two examples translate as &quot;does not continue&quot; for me an=
d I consider this<br>
something rather different from &quot;does not continue past the natural en=
d&quot;.<br>
<br>
The CLL on the other hand gives this one example for {za&#39;o}:<br>
<br>
{le ctuca pu za&#39;o ciksi le cmaci seldanfu le tadgri}<br>
The teacher kept on explaining the mathematics problem to the class too lon=
g.<br>
<br>
The &quot;too long&quot; probably refers to the idea that the &quot;natural=
 ending point&quot;<br>
is already exceeded. I don&#39;t see this kind of translation in the cases =
I cited.<br>
<br>
It seems to me the restriction &quot;after natural end&quot; is superfluous=
 in the definition<br>
of {za&#39;o} and ignored in practice.<br>
<br>
Also, how {ba&#39;e} would one utter &quot;She continues sleeping&quot; wit=
hout {za&#39;o}?<br>
{.i ko&#39;a to&#39;e de&#39;a sipna}? Without the &quot;natural end&quot; =
I would just say<br>
{.i ko&#39;a za&#39;o sipna}, which would mean {.i ko&#39;a sipna za&#39;o =
lo cabnu},<br>
as described in the byfy section on {za&#39;o}. But even then, I don&#39;t =
see<br>
any reason to call &quot;now&quot; a &quot;natural end&quot; of her sleepin=
g.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If someone sleeps past the natural e=
nd (an indefinite point, to be sure), you start getting concerned and wonde=
ring when he&#39;ll way up. What&#39;s wrong that he&#39;s been asleep for =
so long?=A0</div>

<div>Just one example.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>stevo=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Any opinions?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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