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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:24:50 +0100
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] srana zo za'o
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On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 06:53:58AM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
>  From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] srana zo za'o
> =20
> How would you utter "ko'a keeps on running after reaching one mile"
> in your two miles example?
>=20
> It will depend.=C2=A0 If the aim was to run two miles and the
> expectation was that he would do it, then {ca'o} is probably
> appropriate but not {za'o}, since he is still running the two miles.
> But if you expected him to fall out after a mile, {za'o} might be
> appropriate, since your expectation provides a (not quite) natural
> stopping point.=C2=A0 You can play a lot with nuance here.=20

ok

> Also how would you translate the {na za'o surla kakne} sentence in snow w=
hite
> without za'o? ("could not continue to relax")
>=20
> This seems weird to me:
> Therefore it is not the case that the prince kept on being able
> to relax day and night.=C2=A0 Presumably, he could relax if the crisis mo=
ment
> were past, so keeping relaxing seems to mean he was doing it earlier,
> which doesn't seem right.

I don't think so?

> So, not being able to relax is appropriate before
> the crisis point and thus not a matter of {za'o} before that point.
> So, I think the {za'o} is probably a mistake, but the scope problems
> still bother me a bit.

ok, we are talking about the queen here, not the prince.
The context of this sentence is as follows:

The queen is told that snow white is more beautiful than her and
becomes more and more jealous of her. _This_ is the reason why
the queen can not relax anymore (neither at day nor at night).

Could you provide a translation that seems fitting to you, please?

> > I just think this ending point is something that wasn't there before the
> > translation and I wonder how to translate these sentences without
> > introducing this point.
>=20
> Usually, probably {ca'o}or nothing.

Hm, maybe my definition of "ending point" is just a bit to narrow.
I just wanted to point out that the marked point does not necessarily mark
and end, but maybe context can probably bend that definition quite a lot.

You're right, if there's no need to mark /any/ point as special {ca'o}
is fine...

But then, I'm unsure about what "still" indicates in english... Maybe
it really matches {za'o} roughly?


v4hn

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