Received: from mail-we0-f190.google.com ([74.125.82.190]:61808) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1U6jdT-0003Bt-8E; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:25:20 -0800 Received: by mail-we0-f190.google.com with SMTP id x48sf1197199wey.17 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QloCQXCSbljeVfTV+UFu31Q9cNLid6jthjoBSMlIDx0=; b=wH0cuPU7DuLUKJUG6HMxWTNojhA7dlo1YMiynHTmVK2ZDVpIL2Q0qUkWIT5GZ9EbmT 14fPYvrqU/6d5EhYrAW2IrrkwHsQxwaYLZl+J9YPvPA81iFGzm+3yDE4W43WrehKzYud 4I9QoHDNquFAC14wj8+5cgt65zyjUTO5Yi6lKoe/Pb5M7+b+Pcls2V3taxvOkvJFDEzQ B6renWxbDdds2AnQWrVuYRh1XLjjqmuSZbRSHpZKKdgnSlkH22ABUd/Qzv/LuRWIpgkH Xm3GZJs3GtaNqbnnhOt03bPF1I/QxWOz3nKanT6IcTU0yAHsT1zDVmWtlVoSlmwZps7+ nTuw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QloCQXCSbljeVfTV+UFu31Q9cNLid6jthjoBSMlIDx0=; b=jVJKAZBK0myil130nUOIc8hRRBRQLHA3Ekd5oMofZmPU1FxbhrtqUm995xLPzwn2gM oVNKyBoh9ugzMnC9pmocZ1LzzLVAPf3xKnLWkiOsB3+b/ZYrgLdUCIwLsqeHTYxHX/Bh JbSGei/fIgx2zepNfZTQ5lb1FwHcy3ysGXsoef9Ts+arBld/jKaiEh5OuTexdrCyZK4Q jjtrk7C/jF2QdrNehMM8KGH3Mo+sq75ydBGGUQAmPGjsXHenRD70D/FXDqlh8S/4yW3G kdOGxIm2qEGuPSt31JgO/HxPRrYDyXFxrJqRCH9cw5NhFCfV+Yd+yrwCnY61O+jug3re Quuw== X-Received: by 10.180.102.102 with SMTP id fn6mr434100wib.8.1361028299880; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.86.168 with SMTP id q8ls228806wiz.29.canary; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.204.4.217 with SMTP id 25mr294474bks.1.1361028299333; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.204.4.217 with SMTP id 25mr294473bks.1.1361028299315; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i9si4332156bki.2.2013.02.16.07.24.59 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::233; Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fo13so4312634lab.10 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.112.231 with SMTP id it7mr4749302lab.10.1361028298998; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.75.40 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:24:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1361026438.11748.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <20130216005511.GB10126@samsa.fritz.box> <1360984797.53603.YahooMailNeo@web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <20130216115553.GD10126@samsa.fritz.box> <1361026438.11748.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:24:58 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] srana zo za'o From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM, John E Clifford wrote: > From: v4hn > >> Also how would you translate the {na za'o surla kakne} sentence in snow >> white without za'o? ("could not continue to relax") > > This seems weird to me: Therefore it is not the case that the prince kept > on being able to relax day and night. i.e. he couldn't relax day and night any more. > Presumably, he could relax if the > crisis moment were past, so keeping relaxing seems to mean he was doing it > earlier, which doesn't seem right. So, not being able to relax is > appropriate before the crisis point and thus not a matter of {za'o} before > that point. So, I think the {za'o} is probably a mistake, but the scope > problems still bother me a bit. It's important to take into account that "za'o" only applies to the extended stage, not to the whole event. "na za'o" therefore denies that the extended stage takes place, it does not deny the prior stage: "ko'a surla kakne": He is able to relax. "ko'a za'o surla kakne": (Against expectations that for some reason this ability should be over) he is still able to relax. "ko'a na za'o surla kakne": It is not the case that he is still able to relax; he is no longer able to relax. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.