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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Towards Lojban for Beginners version 2.0
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la .and. cu cusku di'e
> Pierre Abbat, On 26/02/2013 01:39:
>> On Monday, February 25, 2013 09:40:01 Adam Chevalier wrote:
>>> That isn't my point. taibei, as a lojbanized name, isn't how its
>>> pronounced
>>> locally or in English.
>>> If there intention was to teach that lesson, important as it is, they
>>> should have used a proper example.
>>
>> There are two things going on with that name:
>> 1. Mandarin distinguishes aspirated and unaspirated stops; Lojban
>> distinguishes voiceless and voiced stops. To preserve the Mandarin
>> distinction, we should map the unaspirated /p/ to<b>, as Pinyin does.
>
> I remember that when I met Nick Nicholas and he spoke Lojban to me, he
> didn't aspirate his Lojban /p,t,k/, and because the great majority of
> English accents nowadays aspirate /p,t,k/ (in syllable onsets), I
> couldn't help hearing them as /b,d,g/ and so mishearing what he was
> saying. Probably if I'd been more accustomed to hearing that accent of
> Lojban I'd have heard through it and not noticed the phonetics.
>
> FWIW I doubt that most Lojban speakers do base the /p,t,k:b,d,g/
> opposition on voicing rather than aspiration; for those whose native
> accents don't do it, it requires too much phonetic sophistication. Nick
> could do it because he was bilingual in Greek, and used Greek phonetics
> for the Lojban stops.

I remember using unaspirated plosives in Lojban some years ago and=20
stopping due to people mishearing my {pe} as {be} and so on. I don't=20
know why I pronounced them that way; my native language doesn't even=20
have those sounds in these positions. I assume I intuitively based my=20
Lojban pronunciation on the foreign languages I had been learning.

More recently I consciously picked a new system for the realizations of=20
{r} in different environments. It's somewhat similar to Portuguese: {r}=20
is [=CA=81] word-initially and [=C9=BE] otherwise. What's interesting is th=
at I=20
use [=C9=BE] in certain cmavo compounds like {pa roi} or {ui ru'e}.

I believe Pierre does something similar with his {r}?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
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