Received: from mail-pb0-f58.google.com ([209.85.160.58]:43969) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UCuR9-00024f-RC; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:10:06 -0800 Received: by mail-pb0-f58.google.com with SMTP id ma3sf3410120pbc.13 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gsq8JWe0ij8Erp9YQ8F82pIHv8ysKakdqBO+TTV0SAo=; b=uaiHhjNj/S6ux1O0Z8Gt3EEsl6JlTRDH5Canmc1i6rZN4A6yuVTKpLGdMv2BDZQWdF eJ2SfbAeEBVBF7IamA86E6VlmO7idhppe+zv4s8R+v2TKhq20xz/vqn4dioV3vzSeC2O w0DApmMVYtnB6vZl2Szxp54SrI6w5WM7vbyxLmkcgTjh8GkK3MmD/EePioyEdUymDVc3 lEI6sougpvoroMkvLlDt1v0QfGLpp/JApNL/Ti6l1MxqAxrHOEM0IuQMH70SmqcKy0oO GZil7WtYExqGJ9uHG7GiNag2xVBRmrG931Ym26KrhmRE7PvgxyS4saZXjTRWL97JbgmG za5Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gsq8JWe0ij8Erp9YQ8F82pIHv8ysKakdqBO+TTV0SAo=; b=ZcnPuDxoOaqp2D7rPZNn6JQgwOFE2NGlR2gcRqh3aAnNxqkERwRzNAX6ePlZ44ms4S HkQ97krOKxy+uiKIlTNISpJYBcZ4QwRc1BiQQT9LggaZ7B7fjxWrnuG4ziPdRwzecawv qxhUmgFA1VND7Fi8KMPn9Nek8rMIYvR7KYMBv8SDVQQob08AZcuOxQ1J739qW1vQHUGU k6R3vWzxklBq59TN8H1MhWX/X43CR95mJKN1DA8uLR95Gfxv/Mim6CUyp/B2JrnBEsyc +kUcid62l7YTsHoCqbDpsktM8Uh3AgzV2cgQQVvgH9Ss+CIiwurJCQOXDInLk8+sdsUB a2NQ== X-Received: by 10.182.189.67 with SMTP id gg3mr702381obc.30.1362499789312; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.33.195 with SMTP id t3ls1413126igi.26.canary; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.41.164 with SMTP id g4mr7002654igl.1.1362499788651; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.41.164 with SMTP id g4mr7002637igl.1.1362499788403; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f43.google.com (mail-oa0-f43.google.com [209.85.219.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mk7si1342836igc.0.2013.03.05.08.09.48 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.43; Received: by mail-oa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id l10so11061676oag.2 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.31.135 with SMTP id a7mr18896457oei.132.1362499788219; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.97.33 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:09:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Aesop's "The Wolf and the Crane" From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1f59ae22c5504d72fb3b2 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8fb1f59ae22c5504d72fb3b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But, back to the original topic (as usual, just getting to it, a month later), a few comments: * I note that you use "tcikonia" in your translation, but "crane" in your English title of this thread. tcikonia (storks) (a word which you yourself created) are not cranes. They are not even in the same avian order (perhaps cranes are za'e cipnrgru?). That being said, you are free to use "tcikonia" because other versions of the fable use "stork". Just commenting on the disconnect * stylistic: rather than ".... nupre tu'a lo velne'u" I'd've probably just gone with "....nupre lo nu cnemu". Why extract out one concrete sumti of "to reward", than tu'a it back to a abstraction because that's what the x2 of nupre requires? Why not simply say that L promised to reward T, thereby staying in the realm of bridi, and not having to do a conversion on cnemu? But as I said, just stylistic, not substantive. * similarly, I'm not to fond of "lo velne'u poi xagrai va'u loi palci" To imply that evil are ever beneficial? Eh. I'd go with something more like "lo velne'u be fo lo palci be'o poi xagrai" Keep up the good work, and I second selckiku's " mi steci nelci lo za'i pixra jibni kei .e lo za'i melbi lerfu" --gejyspa On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > I just posted the translation of "The Wolf and the Crane". Ninth in the > series {lo'i xanri lisri fi la ,esop.}. > > As always, feedback and comments are much appreciated. > > mu'o mi'e la .remod. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --e89a8fb1f59ae22c5504d72fb3b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 But, back to the original topic (as usual, just gettin= g to it, a month later), a few comments:

=A0 * =A0I note= that you use "tcikonia" in your translation, but "crane&quo= t; in your English title of this thread. =A0tcikonia (storks) (a word which= you yourself =A0created) are not cranes. =A0They are not even in the same = avian order (perhaps cranes are za'e cipnrgru?). =A0That being said, yo= u are free to use "tcikonia" because other versions of the fable = use "stork". =A0Just commenting on the disconnect=A0

=A0* =A0stylistic: rather than ".... nupre tu'a lo velne'u= " =A0I'd've probably just gone with "....nupre lo nu cnem= u". =A0Why extract out one concrete sumti of "to reward", th= an tu'a it back to a abstraction because that's what the x2 of nupr= e requires? =A0Why not simply say that L promised to reward T, thereby stay= ing in the realm of bridi, and not having to do a conversion on cnemu? =A0B= ut as I said, just stylistic, not substantive.

=A0 * similarly, I'm not to fond of "lo velne&= #39;u poi xagrai va'u loi palci" =A0To imply that evil are ever be= neficial? =A0Eh. =A0I'd go with something more like "lo velne'= u be fo lo palci be'o poi xagrai"
=A0 =A0
=A0 =A0Keep up the good work, and I second se= lckiku's "=A0= mi steci nelci lo za'i pixra jib= ni kei .e lo za'i melbi lerfu"

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa



On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Remo = Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
I just posted the= translation of "The Wolf and the Crane". Ninth in the series {lo= 'i xanri lisri fi la ,esop.}.

As always, feedback and comments are much appreciated.

mu'o mi'e la .remod.

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=A0
=A0

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