Received: from mail-we0-f190.google.com ([74.125.82.190]:60324) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UDwj3-0000SZ-Dh; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:53 -0800 Received: by mail-we0-f190.google.com with SMTP id p43sf341579wea.27 for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-authenticated :x-provags-id:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=aF5Iv0t2iDeu4Q9YaRmKMTYmrFOYymMqoR94aSFheNE=; b=Ne1E6YxvoYXXpELic5E8Hw8lB0DKt+akolNAa0iTKD293BleFi68YDkNwHDG2d12WK ymDF0doFz8RfQTLZJqnLF7rXHqcpSdp4ReLwHJEqyeppAHG87vlY/NJrLuLP2FvaVwmV eqTd/tc66Np9RB3DgWXWgDKXpcFjsB7kbqjCi/z5xS9s6cPY28kUK3w5tClDjFyOM4Yw WC/UaRTWzT6So9xIzTkQ06Wx7wnVQYH946oMjEblCCKQKVeVkW0swl3i0AQLXBp2vdfM 0US+9Pp8GXgTeomEQKtZuU+oTBJ/6jYp32aJWws2QMGRCcDK9h5gUVzAleSjI2/H692d 7AQw== X-Received: by 10.180.102.200 with SMTP id fq8mr141575wib.12.1362746913497; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:33 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.81.163 with SMTP id b3ls929246wiy.47.canary; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.0.196 with SMTP id 44mr2277800eeb.4.1362746911965; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 47si1639018eeh.1.2013.03.08.04.48.31; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.22; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.34]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M68YO-1UySYv3Auw-00yBWW for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:48:31 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Mar 2013 12:48:31 -0000 Received: from p54AF4632.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [84.175.70.50] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 08 Mar 2013 13:48:31 +0100 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18vUbckyvcviQxW2BU+lfr6LtLIpY8R1vkma5rUEk t89f+LX9uqUHps Message-ID: <5139DE1F.1050001@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:48:31 +0100 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} and {lo} ... and Keith Donnellan? References: <20130220133507.GB3918@samsa.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la gleki cu cusku di'e > Now let's turn to Donellan's views. > The main difference is in the sentence > (1) Smith's murderer is insane > > Attributive use: the sentence is used to say something about whoever > uniquely murdered Smith. Paradigm case: (1) is asserted on purely > general grounds. > Referential use: the sentence is used to say something about a > particular person { the one we have in mind. Paradigm case: (1) is > asserted on the basis of odd behavior by the defendant > [...] > Now what xorlo has to do with it? What xorlo says is that you can use {lo} for all of the above meanings: lo catra be la .smit. cu fenki You can use {le} for the referential use, but you don't have to. Donellan explains the attributive use thus: "Suppose first that we come upon poor Smith foully murdered. From the brutal manner of the killing and the fact that Smith was the most lovable person in the world, we might exclaim, "Smith's murderer is insane." lo catra be la .smit. cu fenki "Smith's murderer is insane." mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.