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On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:06 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2011 11:17:26 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
>>
>>
>> If I had it to do over again, every gismu with an agent place would
>> have it as the first place.  Every gismu with an audience or second
>> agent of any type would have it as the second place.  There would
>> probably be several other regularities as well.
>
>
> Let's assume that
> xau = BAI tag denoting agent or reference frame.
> .iei = BAI tag denoting object.
> .uai = BAI tag denoting property of the object.
>
> Then we can rephrase many gismu as
> ko'a djuno lo du'u ko'e brode kei ko'e = xau mi djuno .uai lo ka brode
> .iei ko'i
> (the same for {morji} and company)
>
> ko'a kakne lo ka brode = xau [je .iei] mi kakne .uai lo ka brode
> ko'a te mukti lo nu brode = xau ko'a .iei ko'a .uai lo ka brode kei te
> mukti
> (May be xau = gau or xau = ma'i)
> These tags can replace FA (a separate set of SE is not needed here if we
> use {jai}).
>
> For {vecnu, dunda, cpacu} and {benji} we can use {be'i} tags (if {benji}
> is about sending objects, not information) as the core semantic prime for
> those gismu seems to be the same.
> For sending information another set of BAI might be needed.
>
>
>> I've been saying {manci} and {melbi} to my babies *a lot*, and I
>> *still* have trouble remembering that it's {do melbi mi} and {mi
>> manci do}.  GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
>>
>
> This is not the problem. We can just use {selmanci} and forget about
> {manci}.
> {xabju = se zdani} is a better example showing redundancy.
>

The problem isn't redundancy, it's consistency.
Place structures should be as consistent as possible.

stevo

>
>
> -Robin
>>
>> --
>> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
>> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
>> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
>> is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/**rlp/<http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/>
>>
>>  --
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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:06 AM, la gleki=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im"><br><br>On Friday, December 16, 2011 11:17:26 PM UTC+4, R=
obin Powell wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>If I had it t=
o do over again, every gismu with an agent place would<br>

have it as the first place. =A0Every gismu with an audience or second<br>ag=
ent of any type would have it as the second place. =A0There would<br>probab=
ly be several other regularities as well.</blockquote><div><br></div></div>

<div>Let&#39;s assume that</div><div>xau =3D BAI tag denoting agent or refe=
rence frame.</div><div>.iei =3D BAI tag denoting object.</div><div>.uai =3D=
 BAI tag denoting property of the object.</div><div><br></div><div>Then we =
can rephrase many gismu as</div>

<div>ko&#39;a djuno lo du&#39;u ko&#39;e brode kei ko&#39;e =3D xau mi djun=
o .uai lo ka brode .iei ko&#39;i</div><div>(the same for {morji} and compan=
y)</div><div><br></div><div>ko&#39;a kakne lo ka brode =3D xau [je .iei] mi=
 kakne .uai lo ka brode</div>

<div>ko&#39;a te mukti lo nu brode =3D xau ko&#39;a .iei ko&#39;a .uai lo k=
a brode kei te mukti=A0</div><div>(May be xau =3D gau or xau =3D ma&#39;i)<=
br></div><div>These tags can replace FA (a separate set of SE is not needed=
 here if we use {jai}).</div>

<div><br></div><div>For {vecnu, dunda, cpacu} and {benji} we can use {be&#3=
9;i} tags (if {benji} is about sending objects, not information) as the cor=
e semantic prime for those gismu seems to be the same.</div><div>For sendin=
g information another set of BAI might be needed.</div>

<div class=3D"im"><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>=
I&#39;ve been saying {manci} and {melbi} to my babies *a lot*, and I<br>*st=
ill* have trouble remembering that it&#39;s {do melbi mi} and {mi<br>

manci do}. =A0GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.</p></blockquote><div><br></div></d=
iv><div>This is not the problem. We can just use {selmanci} and forget abou=
t {manci}.</div><div>{xabju =3D se zdani} is a better example showing redun=
dancy.</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The problem isn&#39;t redundancy, it&#39;s=
 consistency. =A0</div><div>Place structures should be as consistent as pos=
sible.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>stevo</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

<div class=3D"im"><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><p>-Robin</p><p>-- <br><a href=3D"http://singinst.org/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://singinst.org/</a> : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantast=
ic future.<br>

Lojban (<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.loj=
ban.org/</a>): The language in which &quot;this parrot<br>is dead&quot; is =
&quot;ti poi spitaki cu morsi&quot;, but &quot;this sentence is false&quot;=
<br>

is &quot;na nei&quot;. =A0 My personal page: <a href=3D"http://www.digitalk=
ingdom.org/rlp/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.digitalkingdom.org/<u></u>rlp=
/</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></blockquote>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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