On Sat, Mar = 9, 2013 at 4:33 AM, MorphemeAddict <lyt...@gmail= .com> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:06 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, December 16, 2011 11:17:26 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
If I had it to do over again, ever= y gismu with an agent place would
have it as the first place. Every gismu with an audience or secondagent of any type would have it as the second place. There would
= probably be several other regularities as well.

Let's assume that

xau =3D BAI tag denoting agent or referenc= e frame.

.iei =3D BAI tag denoting object.

.uai =3D BAI= tag denoting property of the object.

Then we can = rephrase many gismu as

ko'a djuno lo du'u ko'e brode kei ko'e =3D xau mi djuno .uai lo ka bro= de .iei ko'i

(the same for {morji} and company)

ko'a kakne lo ka brode =3D xau [je .iei] mi kakne .uai lo ka brode<= /div>

ko'a te mukti lo nu brode =3D xau ko'a .iei ko'a .uai lo ka brode kei = te mukti

(May be xau =3D gau or xau =3D ma'i)

These tags can replace FA (a separate set of SE is not needed here if we u= se {jai}).

For {vecnu, dunda, cpacu} and {benji} we can use {be'i}= tags (if {benji} is about sending objects, not information) as the core se= mantic prime for those gismu seems to be the same.

For sending in= formation another set of BAI might be needed.

I've been = saying {manci} and {melbi} to my babies *a lot*, and I
*still* have trou= ble remembering that it's {do melbi mi} and {mi
manci do}. GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

This is not the problem. We can just use {selmanci} and forget a= bout {manci}.

{xabju =3D se zdani} is a better example showing re= dundancy.

The problem isn't redundancy, it's c= onsistency.

Place structures should be as consistent as po= ssible.

Agreed. I w= ill be very happy when we're allowed to review this and actually do somethi= ng about it.

Speaking of, I do know that one thing that will be needed is to know wh= ich gismu have inconsistent structure, what would need to be changed to mak= e it consistent with its "family", and how that change affects the corpus.<= /div>

How is that possible ? I showed= how to "fix" that using BAI, SE and (semiseriously) experimental BAI= .

Are there other methods?

Even if all agentive gismu h= ad agent in x1 then newbies would still complain that non-agentive gismu br= eak this "rule".

Or e.g. what's common in djuno3 and klama3, vecn= u2 and lakne2? Nothing. Still newbies will have to remember that both for d= juno3 and klama3 in order to reach this place you have to use either {fi} o= r {te}. So what problems of learnability of the language would be solved? N= one.

Any volunteers?

Well, i wouldn't recommend changing gismu def= initions. Gismu space is undepletable. We can create alternative gismu for = that. Besides, given that many hate the sounding of gismu ("selsiclu dukse"= syndrom and abhorrence of "la kafkylerfu") and complain that 6-language mi= xture made gismu unrecognisable for everyone this can be even advisable.

Anyway you can add me to your team of volunteers. Ju= st show several examples of how it might look like.

=
stevo

-Robin
--
= http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future= .
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi sp= itaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/<= /a>

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mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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